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Dune: Part Two – First Look

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Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#41

Post by Moissanite »

tweezy wrote: post #11
no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

I've found a barbell shape to the response. People either seem to really like or hate it. Not too many people I know that are in the middle. I will say I'm one of the people that really like it. I'm a big fan of the first Dune book and I think it does a great job of being true to the story. It's visually stunning and the score is perfect. My only gripe (and it's a big one) is that the cut the dinner scene. I don't un…

Interesting - having read the book several times I don't get the reference to the dinner scene; will have to look it up.

The parts which bothered me were the Zendaya slow-mo flash-forwards being too long and too frequent with no substance, and Lady Jessica crying far more than reasonable for the character I remember.

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#42

Post by AmericanChopper »

yamtaddle wrote: post #34
AmericanChopper wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the main themes of the book revolve around anti-colonialism, with the book drawing very obvious parallels to western interference in the Middle East after the discovery of spice, sorry I mean oil. Jihadis fighting against colonial forces fits into this theme perfectly. Crusaders on the other hand were just a different group of colonisers who had previously sought to conquer the Arabs. This doesn’t fit into th…

It subverts the themes, and, relatedly, it's kinda whitewashing . "These future space-witches didn't synthesize a complex mythology and religion based on all Earth's religions—nah, it's just Christianity, because why do you need any of those others?" "Jihad" also has a much-broader meaning than "crusade" without needing to reach into figurative senses of the word, which colors the whole thing rather differently. [EDI…

I agree, and you’re absolutely right about about the word Jihad. I think one of the more sad elements of this is that the Fremen were basically the only good guys in the story (in the first book at least).

My own personal speculation is that the provocative nature of the word Jihad wasn’t actually the main controversy they were trying to avoid. I think the pagan nature of the Fremen, and the depiction of Paul as the Mahdi would be far more objectionable to a Muslim audience. But in any case it shows a lack of courage from the filmmakers. Rather disappointing imo.

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#43

Post by lubujackson »

no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

I think it is on the LOTR level of translating the source material - the jom gabar scene is about as perfect as it could be. There is also a lot of confidence given to the audience, i.e. Paul's visions are shown but not explained, so seeing multiple possible futures is definitely confusing, but it mirrors Paul's confusion as he grapples with his ability.

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#46

Post by Maursault »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #14
dmreedy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the one we've seen so far had to pick and choose which pieces of the broader tangle of themes to engage with, by necessity of the constraints of the medium. But it did a very, very good job taking a movie-formattable slice out of the thing and presenting it with the honesty and scope of the source material. > HBO paved the way for high value high production series, HBO also paved the way to the superficializa…

Other than turning Paul into a crusader, what did they really leave out of the book? The dinner scene, and some of the more minor Leto scheming was all I could remember. Did they have the Jessica finding the conservatory scene? I can’t remember…

> Other than turning Paul into a crusader

Are you referring to Paul's visions of future jihad? That is definitely in the novel. Paul takes advantage of the Fremen seeing him as their Mahdi, and uses their zeal to fight the Harkonnen, avenge his family, and win control of the Imperium, all the while having visions of a future bloody galactic-scale jihad, which he struggles with, ultimately causing him to leave The Path, and in the sequel, become The Preacher.

The 2022 screenplay is more or less identical to the 1984 screenplay, scene for scene, except for giving Duncan Idaho his due, at which the 1984 film notably failed. They did not reinvent the wheel here, and I don't blame them. It would be a daunting task.

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#47

Post by arethuza »

Maursault wrote: post #37
no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

It won 6 Oscars, deservedly, though all technical, but should have won Best Picture, which went to CODA. CODA had a budget of $10M and a box office take of $1.9M, while Dune had a budget of $165M and a box office take of $402M, if that tells you anything. Chalamet should have won Best Actor, he did quite well, but he is too young. He'll get one later when he's older, undoubtedly. Best Actor went to Will Smith for Kin…

"but he is too young"

He is currently 27 - which is a lot older than Paul is supposed to be?

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#48

Post by stevenwoo »

viraptor wrote: post #18
no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

That comment seems like 3 independent thoughts. In my opinion: yes the first part was great, yes it could cover more details as a series, yes a HBO style high value production would be cool to see. The possibility of having something better does not make this movie bad. If you can go into it accepting that: not everything will be covered, the book has lots of internal thoughts and little action which doesn't work wel…

HBO started production on a prequel, Dune: the Sisterhood, based on the Brian Hebert books, I haven't read them, only read the first six by Frank Hebert, but just based on the twist in book five, the origin story of the Bene Gesserit could be bonkers.

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#49

Post by viraptor »

carapace wrote: post #23
no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

This seems as good an opening as any... No. (the first one, haven't seen the second) This "Dune" is not good. It's pretty, but stupid. For one thing, just one little thing, what's the Baron's guy's name? Not the Feyd-Ruatha/Raban amalgam. The mentat. No one says Piter's name!? If you haven't read the book you wouldn't know WhoTF that character is. - - - - I could go on and on, but what I really want to say, what I wa…

> Don't change the dialog

That would be one weird movie given how much the characters in Dune think about things rather than talk about them. There are important conversations of course, but... there would be a lot of "Paul thinking about the future" voiceover.

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#50

Post by thebooktocome »

carapace wrote: post #23
no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

This seems as good an opening as any... No. (the first one, haven't seen the second) This "Dune" is not good. It's pretty, but stupid. For one thing, just one little thing, what's the Baron's guy's name? Not the Feyd-Ruatha/Raban amalgam. The mentat. No one says Piter's name!? If you haven't read the book you wouldn't know WhoTF that character is. - - - - I could go on and on, but what I really want to say, what I wa…

> Just film the book.

This is an impossible request. Movies are fundamentally different from books, they have different languages and cadences, different historical developments, different audiences, different expectations and traditions and tropes.

If you want to read the book, read the book. The film adapted from that book might not be for you and that’s okay.

> You wouldn’t hack up Shakespeare. . .

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead is one of the greatest comedies of the modern era, and it gave us The Lion King 1 1/2, one of the greatest animated films made after the Disney Renaissance.

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