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UK Threatens End-to-End Encryption

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Re: UK Threatens End-to-End Encryption

#41

Post by woah »

PhilipRoman wrote: post #30
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we regard as "democratic" (because they are good guys, or so we'd wish) a country with king and lords (even a House of Lords, or even "Lords Spiritual" [1]), is the greater joke. [1] Just a random click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_House_o... on the Bishop of Chichester https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Chichester#List_of_b... reveals a list of bishops going back as far as…

The key word in "liberal democracy" is "liberal", not "democracy". There exists only a single political system - an oligarchy. When the oligarchs decide to be nice, we call that "democracy".

Not saying this applies to you, but generally when I see someone espousing this opinion online, they are about to endorse a country who literally has a single king-like ruler, who will throw you in jail if you speak ill about them

Re: UK Threatens End-to-End Encryption

#42

Post by avgcorrection »

jen20 wrote: post #25
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we regard as "democratic" (because they are good guys, or so we'd wish) a country with king and lords (even a House of Lords, or even "Lords Spiritual" [1]), is the greater joke. [1] Just a random click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_House_o... on the Bishop of Chichester https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Chichester#List_of_b... reveals a list of bishops going back as far as…

The UK is no less democratic (and perhaps more so, in important ways) than the US, so getting off the high horse there wouldn't hurt.

But OP didn’t say that the US is democratic.

Re: UK Threatens End-to-End Encryption

#43

Post by jabradoodle »

ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #18
derelicta wrote: post #11

The fact that every "democratic" superpower seeks to criminalize or prohibit E2EE at the same time gives the impression there is some sorta coordination between state actors to do so.

The fact that we regard as "democratic" (because they are good guys, or so we'd wish) a country with king and lords (even a House of Lords, or even "Lords Spiritual" [1]), is the greater joke. [1] Just a random click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_House_o... on the Bishop of Chichester https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Chichester#List_of_b... reveals a list of bishops going back as far as…

Yes, you've pointed out some of the ways in which the UK is not democratic, and many would like that to change. Democracy is not a 0 or 1 thing, it is a scale.

There is statistically a good chance you are from the US, which has no concept of Lords, but which has its own very serious shortcomings.

Re: UK Threatens End-to-End Encryption

#44

Post by LeonB »

LeonB wrote: post #39
quickthrower2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGPT nailed that one

Hmmm, I’m not sure what you mean? I thought — maybe you think ChatGPT wrote the comment. But then I thought - maybe you think I used ChatGPT to recall the Martin Gardner quote. Then I was interested to see if ChatGPT would get it right… it failed badly! I asked it for the Martin Gardner quote about fish and chips… here’s the response I got: “Yes, I am familiar with the Martin Gardner quote about fish and chips. The q…

Ah wait — I realised what you meant.

I pasted the quote into ChatGPT and it understood Martin perfectly —

The reply was

“Yes, adding quotation marks to the sentence would definitely make it clearer and easier to read. Here's how the sentence would look with quotation marks:

"I want to put a hyphen between the words 'Fish' and 'And', and 'And' and 'Chips' in my 'Fish-and-Chips' sign."

By using quotation marks, it becomes clear which words the hyphens should go between, and it also clarifies the intended meaning of the phrase "Fish-and-Chips." Without quotation marks, the sentence can be confusing and difficult to understand.”

Re: UK Threatens End-to-End Encryption

#45

Post by c0m »

circuit10 wrote: post #24
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we regard as "democratic" (because they are good guys, or so we'd wish) a country with king and lords (even a House of Lords, or even "Lords Spiritual" [1]), is the greater joke. [1] Just a random click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_House_o... on the Bishop of Chichester https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Chichester#List_of_b... reveals a list of bishops going back as far as…

The king doesn’t really have any power in practice, I think the royal family mainly exist for tradition/tourism reasons at this point At least according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index it’s one of the most democratic countries at 18th in the world (to be fair that’s made by a UK company but I don’t see why they would be biased)

> The [monarch] doesn’t really have any power in practice

Entirely untrue. The monarch has a weekly meeting with the Prime Minister. There have been many cases of the Queen getting carveouts, influencing laws, and vetting bills. There is no law forbidding the monarch from not granting Royal Assent. This notion that the British monarch has no power is an absolute farce.

There’s also the whole concept of King’s Consent, wherein the King gets to vet every single bill for affect the crown's own prerogatives or interests, and negotiate secretly with the government to change the contents of that bill. The Guardian articles detail this process as well. If you seriously believe the King has no power in practice I have a bridge to sell you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Consent

https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/07/revealed-queen-l...

https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/queen-lobbied-fo...

https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/28/queen-secretly-l...

https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/28/revealed-queen-v...

Re: UK Threatens End-to-End Encryption

#46

Post by jabradoodle »

circuit10 wrote: post #24
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we regard as "democratic" (because they are good guys, or so we'd wish) a country with king and lords (even a House of Lords, or even "Lords Spiritual" [1]), is the greater joke. [1] Just a random click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_House_o... on the Bishop of Chichester https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Chichester#List_of_b... reveals a list of bishops going back as far as…

The king doesn’t really have any power in practice, I think the royal family mainly exist for tradition/tourism reasons at this point At least according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index it’s one of the most democratic countries at 18th in the world (to be fair that’s made by a UK company but I don’t see why they would be biased)

This is a tiring narrative. They do have power, e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Action_Against_Iraq...

That the royal family is useful for tourism is also laughable

Re: UK Threatens End-to-End Encryption

#47

Post by denton-scratch »

dghf wrote: post #9

I'm sure we had legislative threats to encryption under Cameron, and Blair, and quite possibly every prime minister between. I'm uncertain whether to be relieved (because multiple previous attempts have come to naught) or worried (because they might actually do it this time).

> under Cameron, and Blair, and quite possibly every prime minister between.

There was exactly one Prime Minister between Blair and Cameron, and he (Brown) wasn't elected.

Re: UK Threatens End-to-End Encryption

#48

Post by iso1631 »

circuit10 wrote: post #24
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we regard as "democratic" (because they are good guys, or so we'd wish) a country with king and lords (even a House of Lords, or even "Lords Spiritual" [1]), is the greater joke. [1] Just a random click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_House_o... on the Bishop of Chichester https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Chichester#List_of_b... reveals a list of bishops going back as far as…

The king doesn’t really have any power in practice, I think the royal family mainly exist for tradition/tourism reasons at this point At least according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index it’s one of the most democratic countries at 18th in the world (to be fair that’s made by a UK company but I don’t see why they would be biased)

The king does have some power, but it's mainly lobbying. Big party donors in America have far more power.

Re: UK Threatens End-to-End Encryption

#49

Post by jabradoodle »

PhilipRoman wrote: post #30
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we regard as "democratic" (because they are good guys, or so we'd wish) a country with king and lords (even a House of Lords, or even "Lords Spiritual" [1]), is the greater joke. [1] Just a random click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_House_o... on the Bishop of Chichester https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Chichester#List_of_b... reveals a list of bishops going back as far as…

The key word in "liberal democracy" is "liberal", not "democracy". There exists only a single political system - an oligarchy. When the oligarchs decide to be nice, we call that "democracy".

Not sure what your motive is, but I doubt you believe North Korea and Switzerland have the same political system.

Re: UK Threatens End-to-End Encryption

#50

Post by gadders »

ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #18
derelicta wrote: post #11

The fact that every "democratic" superpower seeks to criminalize or prohibit E2EE at the same time gives the impression there is some sorta coordination between state actors to do so.

The fact that we regard as "democratic" (because they are good guys, or so we'd wish) a country with king and lords (even a House of Lords, or even "Lords Spiritual" [1]), is the greater joke. [1] Just a random click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_House_o... on the Bishop of Chichester https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Chichester#List_of_b... reveals a list of bishops going back as far as…

I think a lot of non-Brits hear "House of Lords" and think you have to have been born in a castle with a coat of arms. Whilst that may be true in the case of the hereditary peers (which are the minority in the HoL), there are also Life Peers. Some of these are ex/failed politicians, but some are appointed on the basis of their eminence in their field [1] or public works [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Winston,_Baron_Winston

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doreen_Lawrence

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