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Libreboot 20230423

libreboot.org

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Re: Libreboot 20230423

#41

Post by matheusmoreira »

ldarby wrote: post #40
matheusmoreira wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Whoever created these distros had a specific vision they wanted to achieve. Debian is one thing, Arch is another. The world is richer for having both.

Debian and Arch are different enough that the argument isn't about them. The issue is the 100's of distros that could be replaced with just "install and do apt install X" (or some other trivial thing like changing the default to KDE instead of Gnome).

If whoever is putting in the time and money to maintain those things thinks it's worth, then there must be a reason for it.

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#42

Post by arp242 »

ldarby wrote: post #40
matheusmoreira wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Whoever created these distros had a specific vision they wanted to achieve. Debian is one thing, Arch is another. The world is richer for having both.

Debian and Arch are different enough that the argument isn't about them. The issue is the 100's of distros that could be replaced with just "install and do apt install X" (or some other trivial thing like changing the default to KDE instead of Gnome).

You can also replace that with "just install Windows", or "just use macOS".

Hell, you use this for anything; "why make a new album, movie, or book when there are already thousands upon thousands of them? Yours probably isn't any better!"

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#43

Post by Nextgrid »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #34
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of the manhours + resources wasted achieving/maintaining basically the same thing in slightly different ways...

Not really. Whoever created these distros had a specific vision they wanted to achieve. Debian is one thing, Arch is another. The world is richer for having both.

90% of distros' "visions" is ultimately just providing a general-purpose desktop/laptop OS. There's indeed an insane amount of wasted effort, both on developers' part but also users (skill portability is an issue because no 2 Linux distros/machines are alike).

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#44

Post by ldarby »

arp242 wrote: post #42
ldarby wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debian and Arch are different enough that the argument isn't about them. The issue is the 100's of distros that could be replaced with just "install and do apt install X" (or some other trivial thing like changing the default to KDE instead of Gnome).

You can also replace that with "just install Windows", or "just use macOS". Hell, you use this for anything; "why make a new album, movie, or book when there are already thousands upon thousands of them? Yours probably isn't any better!"

You completely misunderstand. Windows and Mac are different enough from every linux distro that the argument isn't about them.

And if you're going to start talking about copy-rightable works of entertainment, then yes if you write a book based off another book just with 1 extra character (analogous to "install and do apt install X") then that book would violate copyright and should not be written. It's the lack of copyright in FOSS that allows all the pointless duplication of effort with all the almost identical linux distros.

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#45

Post by anonym29 »

LukeShu wrote: post #18
anonym29 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't heard of this, can you share more context or a link to a story about this?

There was a sibling "osboot" project that allowed in the minimum amount of binary blobs to add support for more boards. This is at odds with the FSF's RYF and FSDG policies. In November 2022, libreboot merged osboot, adopting osboot's more permissive binary blob policy ( https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html ). Because libreboot is no longer in compliance with the FSF's policies, this has created some drama in the c…

Thank you for the explanation!

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#47

Post by guilhas »

jeroenhd wrote: post #10
gclawes wrote: post #2

Does Libreboot (.org) still have the binary blob drama going on?

I'm pretty sure that "drama" is the whole reason Libreboot exists, instead of just merging into the Coreboot project it's based on.

'Was'

They recently included non-free binary blobs. They should probably rename to openboot

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#48

Post by FrostKiwi »

endorphine wrote: post #38

Can someone ELI5 what this is and what purpose does it serve?

This is a pre-compiled distribution of Coreboot with the aim of sticking as close to free as in freedom philosophy.

Most importantly it identifies devices, which can be booted with as little involvement of non-free blobs (binary large objects) and pre-configures coreboot to support exactly that use-case, whilst enabling features off by default in Coreboot like CMOS settings. Also it disables the Intel Management engine, not by patching it out, but by booting in a way which does not require it to load in the first place, if possible. Depending on architecture, like some laptops with Core2 and some server boards like any AMD processor from the Bulldozer era can be booted off-of firmware images, which contain no black-box blobs from the manufacturer or parts, which cannot be recreated from FOSS code. Most crucially, this also includes μCode updates.

So it could be seen as a tradeoff in stability and performance to get close to the ideal of extending FOSS into the realm of Hardware.

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#50

Post by LukeShu »

mindslight wrote: post #39
LukeShu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely drama around it. There's drama around whether devices seeking RYF certification can use newer (blob-allowing) versions of Libreboot, even if the devices has a board for which Libreboot doesn't use blobs. There's drama around whether FSDG-following GNU/Linux distros can still ship the Libreboot tools. The page https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html does a better job of showing how the Libreboot's po…

I hadn't seen this new Libreboot policy. This is fantastic! The FSF's criteria have become quite calcified and unprincipled at this point. Specifically I'm talking about how blobs loaded from flash are given a pass, while blobs on isolated coprocessors are verboten. Principle requires that binary blobs in flash (or even ROM) are put in the same class as every other binary blob. And pragmatism for the modern world req…

I wouldn't say that the FSF's criteria are unprincipled. At his pre-Libreplanet talk on 2023-03-17, RMS gave a principled and pragmatic explanation of the criteria. I don't agree with him on his application of some of the principles or on where the appropriate places to make compromises between principles and pragmatism are; but that doesn't mean his conclusions are unprincipled.
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