Let's hope this one never gets completed. This is ancient tech the world no longer needs. Assuming that it can't be converted into a modern nuclear plant, that is.
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Cuba’s Unfinished Nuclear Power Station
41–50 of 84 posts
Re: Cuba’s Unfinished Nuclear Power Station
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're assuming this much storage exists. And I'd love to see all the calculations that include the need to overbuild, the need for storage etc.
No, I'm assuming it can be built because the unit economics work better. Back in 2013 I remember people used to constantly trash solar and wind because it was 1-2% of the grid anywhere, max, while nuclear power was often 10-30% (or 70% in France). We're at that same point with storage. Since then we've had a decline in nuclear power due to the high cost and enormous growth in renewables due to it being 5x cheaper. Un…
> Since then we've had a decline in nuclear power and enormous growth in renewables.
The only reason we've had decline in nuclear is politics. That's why now Germany is busy burning coal and importing electricity.
> Unit economics prevailed before and theyll prevail again.
Wishful thinking is no substitute for reality. Where are the calculations? That include both the need to ridiculously overbuild renewables and the need for the so-far-nonexistent grid scale storage?
Re: Cuba’s Unfinished Nuclear Power Station
#43Hopefully it will be finished one day. It's a shame how much the world has taken a step back with the collapse of the USSR and the rise of US unipolarity. The once-great Buran space shuttles lie derelict in Kazakhstan and Russia (not even in a museum!). The huge An-225 that took it to space has been destroyed in the Russia-Ukraine war. Investment in nuclear power has collapsed as projects like this show (and Germany'…
> The once-great Buran space shuttles lie derelict in Kazakhstan and Russia (not even in a museum!).
Buran was developed under the impression that the Shuttle would have a primarily military use, to place weapons in orbit, and so was made for a similar sort of imagined mission.
The Shuttle just didn't get used the way the US hoped to use it at the start, and ended up wasting a lot of resources and money. It made a lot of sense to cancel Buran then.
But yes, the remains of the program could have used better treatment. One of the models was used as a roof for a bicycle rental at a public park in Moscow. So at least you could see that very easily.
https://i0.wp.com/www.travelsinorbit.com/wp-content/uploads/...
https://i0.wp.com/www.travelsinorbit.com/wp-content/uploads/...
> Investment in nuclear power has collapsed as projects like this show (and Germany's recent decision to shut down all nuclear power plants).
Investment in nuclear made a lot of sense back when countries wanted lots of nuclear missiles. As far as peaceful applications go, nuclear just doesn't compete on price. I think the tech is very cool, but nobody is going to spend tens of billions just for the sake of cool.
Re: Cuba’s Unfinished Nuclear Power Station
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're assuming this much storage exists. And I'd love to see all the calculations that include the need to overbuild, the need for storage etc.
No, I'm assuming it can be built because the unit economics work better. Back in 2013 I remember people used to constantly trash solar and wind because it was 1-2% of the grid anywhere, max, while nuclear power was often 10-30% (or 70% in France). We're at that same point with storage. Since then we've had a decline in nuclear power due to the high cost and enormous growth in renewables due to it being 5x cheaper. Un…
This whole article illustrates a huge benefit of solar over nuclear: if you deploy 90% of the required solar panels, you get 90% of the energy, while if you build 90% of a nuclear plant, you get nothing. The power of incremental deployment.
Re: Cuba’s Unfinished Nuclear Power Station
#45> in such an economy the majority of workers will be glad to take a bribe > gesturing to our cameras, making a meaningful pat of his wallet inside his pocket > It might have been the presence of the work crew that deterred this man ... Perhaps the team of workers were looting the place I really hate this attitude, this feeling of superiority that because you're in a poorer country and you're rich and entitled you jus…
Fact of the matter is that bribery is common in many places, and, yes, often those places are poorer countries.
Regardless, I think your judgment of the author is a little harsh. They even acknowledge and question their assumed superiority in the very next paragraph, which I think is refreshingly honest:
> Of course, it was equally possible that the guard simply wouldn’t accept a bribe on moral grounds – and as we walked back to the car, I wondered whether it said more about me or about him, that this possibility only came as an afterthought.
Re: Cuba’s Unfinished Nuclear Power Station
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, I'm assuming it can be built because the unit economics work better. Back in 2013 I remember people used to constantly trash solar and wind because it was 1-2% of the grid anywhere, max, while nuclear power was often 10-30% (or 70% in France). We're at that same point with storage. Since then we've had a decline in nuclear power due to the high cost and enormous growth in renewables due to it being 5x cheaper. Un…
This whole article illustrates a huge benefit of solar over nuclear: if you deploy 90% of the required solar panels, you get 90% of the energy, while if you build 90% of a nuclear plant, you get nothing. The power of incremental deployment.
> you deploy 90% of the required solar panels, you get 90% of the energy
No. You get 0% to 90% of energy.
E.g., right now in Germany solar is at 22% of its capacity. Wind is at 11%
Re: Cuba’s Unfinished Nuclear Power Station
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's 20% of the cost not 20% less. Matching solar and wind power with storage or peakers is still cheaper.
You're assuming this much storage exists. And I'd love to see all the calculations that include the need to overbuild, the need for storage etc.
Just a random idea: given the nature of Cuban society would neighbourhood or house level batteries be viable? Enough to store your electricity needs for (say) two or three days. So you can smooth out the day/night wind/calm cycles to some extent?
Tangential: given the state of the structures in the OA is it really possible this facility can be completed without effectively rebuilding it?
Re: Cuba’s Unfinished Nuclear Power Station
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're assuming this much storage exists. And I'd love to see all the calculations that include the need to overbuild, the need for storage etc.
Just a random idea: given the nature of Cuban society would neighbourhood or house level batteries be viable? Enough to store your electricity needs for (say) two or three days. So you can smooth out the day/night wind/calm cycles to some extent? Tangential: given the state of the structures in the OA is it really possible this facility can be completed without effectively rebuilding it?
> given the nature of Cuban society would neighbourhood or house level batteries be viable?
Possibly maybe?
You need 10kW per household per day with generous electricity consumption [1] Retail prices for 10kW batteries seem to be in the range of $5k to infinity.
At scale this will be cheaper, but then the question then becomes the same: availability at this scale
[1] https://solaremporium.com.au/blog/how-long-will-a-10kw-batte...
Re: Cuba’s Unfinished Nuclear Power Station
#49See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwentendorf_Nuclear_Power_Pl...
Completely finished, everything was ready, even the protective clothing and all employee contracts, fuel rods on standby, just never switched on due to popular vote (political miscalculation).
"The most expensive museum in the world".
Re: Cuba’s Unfinished Nuclear Power Station
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
The USSR held back a huge part of the world. The Baltics, the whole of Eastern Europe, East Germany, all suffered immensely under their influence, and are still feeling the consequences. The USSR created ruthless regimes all over the world, some of which are still standing: Cuba, North Korea. Even after the partial collapse of that Empire, Russia degraded to openly being a terrorist state, sending Wagnerites all over…
It’s sad how many people have forgotten what the USSR was and how it subjugated and terrorised millions (even some Hungarians amazingly). Especially so when people defend Russia now saying the USSR shouldn’t have been dismantled. Why not? They were ruling people by force not consent.
They're still ruling by force not consent. Unrest in the "ethnic" Russian federation states has been on the rise since late last year when Russia exposed her weakness in Ukraine. Countries that previously leaned towards Moscow are now distancing themselves and asserting their independence. Even Kazakhstan is now openly bypassing Russian oil and diversifying its foreign relations. The younger generation see Russia as a colonizer and are pushing for a Kazakh ethnic identity.
This latest invasion is the push these groups needed to finally throw off their yoke.