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Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

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Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#41

Post by dragonelite »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #17
exhilaration wrote: post #6

I'm curious, is there a list somewhere of these world-changing industrial espionage incidents? Here's two more I remember off the top of my head. Not sure why the top results are the Smithsonian Magazine but here are some links: Samuel Slater brings cotton mill technology to America in 1789: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-industrial-esp... Robert Fortune learns Chinese tea production methods and brings…

The US actually encouraged "IP theft" well into the 19th century and did not recognise foreign copyright. On their side the UK not only banned export of certain technologies to the US but they also banned emigration of the people knowledgeable about them.

That not so weird Taiwan does the exactly the same with their semi conductor engineers that want to go to China.

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#42

Post by knodi123 »

mistrial9 wrote: post #19
peteradio wrote: post #12

Silk has been produced for 3-4k years, can you imagine what a son-of-a-bitch that was back then? Was silk like gold and bitcoin? Somehow valuable because its such a bitch to produce? Feels like all of it is a goof on the people who accept it at face value.

silk materials relate to a sensual world, where the touch, feel and quality of the physical embodiment is valued highly.. It is possible that English-style commerce downplays this sensual value, preferring all forms of money, e.g. rare coins, stamps, securities and financial agreements, as higher value. It is an example of a polarity. There is a rumor that Bill Gates will not pay for art because "that is not worth mo…

> There is a rumor that Bill Gates will not pay for art

It's a funny anecdote, but he has well over a hundred million in art.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2845331/bill-gates-art-collecti...

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#43

Post by aorth »

kmlx wrote: post #39
ptsneves wrote: post #21

Byzantine history is so important to understand the modern world. It gives us the context for the orthodox/west divide; it gives us an example of a economic and intellectual superpower needing to live with the realities of barbarian neighbors, and being destroyed! It shows us great statecraft lasting a thousand years. It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs and how the next best thing was…

one random tidbit that struck me was that the term "Byzantine Empire" was actually an invention from the 1500's. the "byzantine" people actually called themselves Romans, and the empire was called "Roman Empire".

Ah yes! This is an interesting tidbit I learned while listening to the excellent Fall of Civilizations podcast. The episode about Byzantium was so good. Paul and his team do such a good job on the audio and visuals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvzoAfpCvbw

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#44

Post by boomboomsubban »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #36
ptsneves wrote: post #21

Byzantine history is so important to understand the modern world. It gives us the context for the orthodox/west divide; it gives us an example of a economic and intellectual superpower needing to live with the realities of barbarian neighbors, and being destroyed! It shows us great statecraft lasting a thousand years. It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs and how the next best thing was…

> It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs and how the next best thing was celibate people ok. why?

They're more likely to choose their successors based on merit than familial ties for a start. That's really enough, but they may also have less need to enrich themselves as they don't need to plan for inheritance.

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#45

Post by _a_a_a_ »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #44
_a_a_a_ wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs and how the next best thing was celibate people ok. why?

They're more likely to choose their successors based on merit than familial ties for a start. That's really enough, but they may also have less need to enrich themselves as they don't need to plan for inheritance.

I wish the original poster had put that. It makes sense. Thanks

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#47

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

kmlx wrote: post #39
ptsneves wrote: post #21

Byzantine history is so important to understand the modern world. It gives us the context for the orthodox/west divide; it gives us an example of a economic and intellectual superpower needing to live with the realities of barbarian neighbors, and being destroyed! It shows us great statecraft lasting a thousand years. It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs and how the next best thing was…

one random tidbit that struck me was that the term "Byzantine Empire" was actually an invention from the 1500's. the "byzantine" people actually called themselves Romans, and the empire was called "Roman Empire".

That's because Byzantium was the eastern wing of the Roman Empire. Justinian I (the emperor in the wikipedia article) is remembered for being behind the last almost successful attempt to take Rome back from the hands of the barbarians and reunite the Empire's two heads.

The two heads in the Byzantine flags, that is. Byzantines called themselves "Roman", and everyone else in the area called them "Rum" (i.e. "Roman") because they were Romans.

And this guy was the Last of the Romans:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belisarius

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#48

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

thomasahle wrote: post #32
drcode wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do find it curious that not that much science came out of the Byzantine empire- Yes there was some, but (with my admittedly limited knowledge) it does seem to pale in comparison to the earlier stuff from Greece, Rome or even the Arab Caliphates with their scholars in Mathematics and Physics. It seems like it was intellectual, but didn't have a proportional output of science or art that has stood the test of time. F…

Unfortunately for the Byzantine empire it spent most of its centuries in a population/territory/economic decline. Back in 541-542 an outbreak killed about 40% of the city’s population. But even during the period 1347-1453, a total of 61 plague reports were noted. They only had the wealth, peace and population to focus on science to a very small degree. That they managed to stay afloat for as long as they did is a tes…

>> Back in 541-542 an outbreak killed about 40% of the city’s population.

An outbreak of the plague.

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#49

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

drcode wrote: post #26
ptsneves wrote: post #21

Byzantine history is so important to understand the modern world. It gives us the context for the orthodox/west divide; it gives us an example of a economic and intellectual superpower needing to live with the realities of barbarian neighbors, and being destroyed! It shows us great statecraft lasting a thousand years. It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs and how the next best thing was…

I do find it curious that not that much science came out of the Byzantine empire- Yes there was some, but (with my admittedly limited knowledge) it does seem to pale in comparison to the earlier stuff from Greece, Rome or even the Arab Caliphates with their scholars in Mathematics and Physics. It seems like it was intellectual, but didn't have a proportional output of science or art that has stood the test of time. F…

I’m impressed by how you manage to disparage both the very real intellectual achievement of both the Byzantine empire and the Abbasid Caliphate in such a short comment. It’s even more amusing that you do that while comparing them to the Greek achievements without realising that the main reasons you know about them is due to translations made by intellectuals of the Byzantine empire and especially of the Caliphate.

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#50

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

qwytw wrote: post #34
ptsneves wrote: post #21

Byzantine history is so important to understand the modern world. It gives us the context for the orthodox/west divide; it gives us an example of a economic and intellectual superpower needing to live with the realities of barbarian neighbors, and being destroyed! It shows us great statecraft lasting a thousand years. It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs and how the next best thing was…

> It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs That was the case for "only" around a third to a half of the empire's existence. But by the 1000 ADs appointing eunuchs to high posts fell out of fashion with emperors appointing family members or leading in the field directly (unlike in Justinians day when emperors spent almost their entire reign being cloistered in the palace). Somewhere between…

In some sense, the final sack by the Ottomans imposed a certain modicum of order and peace to the Polis. And that's saying something.
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