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Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

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Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#41

Post by Mizza »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #35
Mizza wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's better than the poke in the eye, that's for sure, I just don't think it's optimal and I'm tired of the way this story gets trotted out every now and then. I think there's a middle ground between solid gold rocket cars and rainy-day austerity. Norway is quite under developed in many ways, many services you'd think would be better just aren't, once the oil gets switched off they don't have much modern industry as…

> many services you'd think would be better just aren't Perhaps you could enlighten us about which services are lacking and how they are so much better in those countries that just spent the North Sea oil revenue internally?

Today, I'd pick Posten. It seems like you're a proud nationalist and I don't want to start a fight.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#42

Post by vidarh »

Mizza wrote: post #23
vidarh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather so that you can have the "small trickle" perpetually.

Yeah, countries always have this, they're called taxpayers. If you invest in them, they can pay you more taxes than you put in. If you make their lives good, then people can even make _more_ people! Instead, Norway invests in American businesses in order to get that slow trickle, so instead of investing in their own people and industries, they have a slow trickle which can gives pension to a population in decline.

Investment within Norway is high enough that putting more in would drive inflation, at which point you might as well be burning the money, so it's a balancing act.

And the notion that improving living conditions - Norway is already at or near the top of nearly every quality of life measure - increases fertility is directly the opposite of real life global trends.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#43

Post by knodi123 »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #31
Mizza wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, countries always have this, they're called taxpayers. If you invest in them, they can pay you more taxes than you put in. If you make their lives good, then people can even make _more_ people! Instead, Norway invests in American businesses in order to get that slow trickle, so instead of investing in their own people and industries, they have a slow trickle which can gives pension to a population in decline.

Maybe that's the real nub of the "resource curse"-- any effort to improve the lives of its citizens will be wrong and bad, so just invest in foreign assets and otherwise preserve things as they are.

Nasruddin was riding his donkey to the market, with his son walking along beside him.

As he passed a group of travelers going in the opposite direction, he overheard one of them saying "look at this cruel old man, riding in comfort while his son has to walk." Caring very much for the opinion of others, he got off of the donkey and told his son to ride.

He passed another group of travelers, and overheard one whisper "look at the silly old man, walking his life away while his young, strong son rides in comfort."

He tried riding behind his son, but overheard people criticizing his cruelty towards the overburdened beast. He tried having them both walk, and was criticized for not realizing that donkeys could be ridden.

Finally, in frustration, he ordered his son to help him carry the donkey. As they both struggled to lift the large and uncooperative beast, another group of travelers approached, staring at him in confusion. Before they could say anything, he shouted at them "Shut up, I don't want to hear it!"

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#44

Post by sidewndr46 »

kzrdude wrote: post #25
sidewndr46 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well today I learned something interesting: Norway and Sweden aren't on the big grid that covers most of Europe.

Here's a bonus: western half of Denmark is on the continental europe synchronous grid and the eastern half is on the Nordic grid.

at least the whole country is nominally ~220 VAC 50 Hz though right? Not like Japan with different frequency standards.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#45

Post by sidewndr46 »

matsemann wrote: post #17
sidewndr46 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well today I learned something interesting: Norway and Sweden aren't on the big grid that covers most of Europe.

We (Norway) do have cables connecting us to UK and Europe. They've been a hot topic the last year with the high energy prices. We're making bank on selling our hydro power when gas got scarce. But that skyrocketed our own prices. It's a difficult topic. It's probably a net win for Norway, as we can produce when price is high, and stop our hydro and import when prices are low. The problem is just that the benefit ends…

I would assume those cables aren't frequency synchronized however, they are either a HVDC cable or have DC interconnect somewhere so that the grids aren't frequency synced.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#46

Post by whinenot »

jutrewag wrote: post #39
preommr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is where the money goes. You can point to any country that scores high on corruption index and go "well actually, these people made out like bandits".

The Middle East is very rich with a very high standard of living. A lot of those countries have no income tax and basically free medical and utilities. Much better than what Norway offers.

Is the standard of living really much better in the Middle East than what Norway offers? I haven't seen any exposés on modern slavery in Norway like I have on the Middle East fiefdoms, but maybe those canny vikings are just better at hiding it?

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#47

Post by ubercore »

Mizza wrote: post #41
kwhitefoot wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many services you'd think would be better just aren't Perhaps you could enlighten us about which services are lacking and how they are so much better in those countries that just spent the North Sea oil revenue internally?

Today, I'd pick Posten. It seems like you're a proud nationalist and I don't want to start a fight.

Posten is a mixed bag. Ease of access at places like grocery stores, and general service is great. But delivery can often be weirdly delayed. Sometimes we get notice of bills _after_ they're due. But overall, I prefer it to the US postal service I'm used to, so it doesn't feel like a slam dunk example to me.

Spend some of that money on training and paying more GPs, and you'd have my interest...

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#48

Post by ubercore »

whinenot wrote: post #46
jutrewag wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Middle East is very rich with a very high standard of living. A lot of those countries have no income tax and basically free medical and utilities. Much better than what Norway offers.

Is the standard of living really much better in the Middle East than what Norway offers? I haven't seen any exposés on modern slavery in Norway like I have on the Middle East fiefdoms, but maybe those canny vikings are just better at hiding it?

I think the recently cancelled au pair system was as close as Norway got.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#49

Post by tpmx »

hkon wrote: post #36
tpmx wrote: post #4

Disclosure: I'm a Swede who previously worked in various primarily Norwegian-owned software companies for two decades. I'm mostly happy about how it went. I also got some insights about Norway along the way via the 100+ trips to Oslo during that last decade when I had an engineering management role. That travel schedule was exhausting. My pet peeve about Norway and oil: How very few people ever call them out on being…

Disclosure, I'm a Norwegian. Saudi Arabia of the north. Well. Actually I think Sweden might be a top contender for that name.

Please do elaborate your thoughts on immigration. We're listening.

Re: Farouk al Kasim saved Norway from its oil (2014)

#50

Post by whinenot »

ubercore wrote: post #48
whinenot wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the standard of living really much better in the Middle East than what Norway offers? I haven't seen any exposés on modern slavery in Norway like I have on the Middle East fiefdoms, but maybe those canny vikings are just better at hiding it?

I think the recently cancelled au pair system was as close as Norway got.

I wasn't aware of the issue but after reading some news articles, it fully aligns with my impression of Norwegian living standards.
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