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Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

nytimes.com

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Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#41

Post by DrBazza »

Nicksil wrote: post #28
benfortuna wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nuclear power is cleaner [..] than fossil fuels in every way." Actually not every way though.. nuclear waste has to go somewhere.

>Actually not every way though.. nuclear waste has to go somewhere. I don't understand your argument; of course waste must go somewhere. Nuclear power, with its waste, is still cleaner than fossil fuels in every way.

> nuclear waste has to go somewhere.

My stock comment for that is: bury it deep and with signs; if we've lost the ability to read the signs, we've lost the ability to dig deep and endanger ourselves.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#42

Post by awaythrow98765 »

HyperSane wrote: post #14

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2022/10/28/the-iron... German Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced that Germany was reopening five power plants that burn lignite, a low-rank coal. Germany’s return to lignite demonstrates, yet again, the Iron Law of Electricity, which says that people, businesses, and governments will do whatever they have to do to get the electricity they need. Indeed, Germany’s move back to lig…

Whats even more stupider, burning coal emits more radioactivity into the atmosphere than all nuclear accidents ever have...

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#43

Post by ethbr0 »

tuukkah wrote: post #6
nixass wrote: post #2

Germany be like - let's do exactly opposite of what makes sense in today's world Green party is really ruining and I'm amazed people still give them votes

This was not decided by the greens only. From the article: > Yet the Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan in 2011 caused German sentiments to shift strongly against atomic energy once more, and Ms. Merkel abruptly reversed course. Her government passed a law to phase out Germany’s 17 nuclear reactors by the end of 2022. Similarly in the neighbouring Austria, nuclear power is prohibited in the constitution, not by a po…

Good politicians deliver the end goal people want (e.g. cheap and clean electricity), in the best way scientifically possible, then convince their base their method was the right decision.

Bad politicians ask people how they should do a thing, then do that thing.

It's been awhile since Germany has had good politicians where energy is concerned.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#45

Post by HyperSane »

kken wrote: post #32
leipert wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, what’s even more hilarious: Conservatives made the decision to shut down the nuclear plants and also destroyed the German renewable sector at the same time. But voters have a short term memory and will blame it all on the current administration.

The entire concept of the "Energiewende" was implemented without putting the right constraints in place. The conservatives later fumbled it instead of adding the right changes. What happened is that the subsidies for renewable energy in Germany mostly led to a buildup of a huge photovoltaic industry in China after an initial goldrush in Europe. When they changed the incentive scheme, the German photovoltaic industry…

Nuclear is the ONLY gigawatt scale dispatchable very low carbon source of electricity humans have at the moment, other than hydroelectric damns but we have used up pretty much all available capacity. If you refuse to use it then you are going to have to burn coal or gas instead. That is why Germany emits 6 times more CO2 per KWh than France.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1291750/carbon-intensity...

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#46

Post by fabian2k »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #29
tuukkah wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not choosing between nuclear and fossils - we have chosen renewables. Clarification: I'm not German. I'm talking globally and long term. What's happening right now in Germany is just a blip. The big picture: > Clean power growth is likely to exceed electricity demand growth in 2023; this would be the first year for this to happen outside of a recession. With average growth in electricity demand and clean power…

You thought you chose renewables. You actually chose coal, LNG, and buying power from France.

Germany exports more power than it imports. And France is only a part of the imports, with 2022 being much lower due to their issues with the nuclear power plants.

https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2023/03...

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#48

Post by CorrectHorseBat »

HyperSane wrote: post #14

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2022/10/28/the-iron... German Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced that Germany was reopening five power plants that burn lignite, a low-rank coal. Germany’s return to lignite demonstrates, yet again, the Iron Law of Electricity, which says that people, businesses, and governments will do whatever they have to do to get the electricity they need. Indeed, Germany’s move back to lig…

>Germany’s need to keep the lights on explains why the government is willing to ignore the fact that burning lignite to produce electricity emits more carbon dioxide than any other form of power generation.

And best of all, more radioactive waste as well

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#49

Post by Retric »

HyperSane wrote: post #35
Retric wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of “going green” is the delta between the cost of green power and the cost of providing electricity without going green. That’s nowhere close to 500B by 2025.

Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world.

Which largely spiked due to high fossil fuel prices.

Prematurely shutting down nuclear looks like a dumb decision, but Germany has been mismanaging their electric grid for decades.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#50

Post by cinntaile »

awaythrow98765 wrote: post #42
HyperSane wrote: post #14

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2022/10/28/the-iron... German Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced that Germany was reopening five power plants that burn lignite, a low-rank coal. Germany’s return to lignite demonstrates, yet again, the Iron Law of Electricity, which says that people, businesses, and governments will do whatever they have to do to get the electricity they need. Indeed, Germany’s move back to lig…

Whats even more stupider, burning coal emits more radioactivity into the atmosphere than all nuclear accidents ever have...

You'll have to properly frame your statement for it to make sense. Are you talking about one plant over its lifetime? How long is the lifetime? What kind of coal is burned in that plant? How big is the plant?

Also we don't know about all the nuclear accidents, do you mean all known civilian nuclear power plant accidents?

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