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Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#41

Post by anotherboffin »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #35

I feel like modern bicycles seem to be optimized for light weight over ease of maintenance and longevity. Modern bicycles (except new e-bikes with chain guards and internal hub gears) require degreasing and lubing every two weeks, These are not going to be very attractive to people who use other means of transport, because cars don't need this sort of frequent maintenance.

> Modern bicycles (except new e-bikes with chain guards and internal hub gears) require degreasing and lubing every two weeks

Yes and no. Modern 11/12 speed chains maybe, but my commuter (9-spd) gets lube every 4 months or so. Yes, I have to monitor the chain wear and change it every few years, but that’s not very complicated. It goes to the workshop less often than the car.

They’re more expensive, but you can find non-electric bikes with a belt drive and a gearbox or gear hub which are very low maintenance.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#42

Post by leemailll »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #35

I feel like modern bicycles seem to be optimized for light weight over ease of maintenance and longevity. Modern bicycles (except new e-bikes with chain guards and internal hub gears) require degreasing and lubing every two weeks, These are not going to be very attractive to people who use other means of transport, because cars don't need this sort of frequent maintenance.

urban commute with bicycles never need such high frequent maintenance unless you spend a lot time on unpaved road

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#43

Post by tcmart14 »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #33
ck2 wrote: post #14

You think this generation is going to be riding more bicycles? Likely far far less, the roads are insanely dangerous and toxic now. I don't know what it is like in other cities but in mine at least one out of ten vehicles is now one of those new ridiculous monster sized trucks that not only cannot see you, they wouldn't care if they did. The bicycle lane line is now something to cruise over for these drivers while th…

You're describing the status quo since streets were handed over to cars and prioritized over everything else. Bicycle gutters were always something inattentive or malicious drivers cruise into. That's not to say those yank tanks aren't crazy dangerous; they absolutely are. But getting rid of them doesn't make bicycling safe. Cars as a whole are the hazard.

Yea. The force generated by a 3,000 LB Toyota Prius is just as deadly as a 5,000 to 7,000 LB Ford F350. At 35 MPH, that is still quiet a few Newtons. According to a handy internet calculator, the Prius has an impact force of over 4 million Newtons or feels like being pressed by almost 1,000,000 pounds. The biggest problem with the Ford F350 is probably the sitting high and less visibility coupled with a false sense of safety some may have that causes them to drive more recklessly. Sort of like at 18 you think nothing can kill you so you do crazy shit.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#44

Post by leemailll »

paulcole wrote: post #16
ggm wrote: post #2

There's nothing wrong with continuous improvement but when you are trying to fine tune something in the flat portion of an exponential scale, and lets face it, even the most expensive bike shown here is 1/2 the burden of an ICE engine car, you have to ask yourself: is this optimisation really the core problem? I argue: it's not. It's polishing. It's functionally a bit time-wast-y compared to reductions in the cost, a…

I paid about $1,000 for a steel-frame touring bike about 15 years ago. I commute/run errands for a few thousand miles a year on it. Every 2-3 years, I get it overhauled at a cost of about $500. Other than that, I’ve replaced wheels and tires a few times and break pads on average about once a year, plus the occasional random issue. So for me, the cost of maintenance quickly outpaced the cost of the bike. But it’s stil…

what kind of service cost you $500? that's pretty high unless you replace a lot stuff

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#45

Post by notatoad »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #35

I feel like modern bicycles seem to be optimized for light weight over ease of maintenance and longevity. Modern bicycles (except new e-bikes with chain guards and internal hub gears) require degreasing and lubing every two weeks, These are not going to be very attractive to people who use other means of transport, because cars don't need this sort of frequent maintenance.

"modern bicycles" is a bit of a weird description, because the main defining characteristic of modern bicycles (even going back as little as the last 5 years) is a huge amount of variance in the design to suit specific purposes.

and there's plenty of companies making "city bikes" that don't require super-frequent mainenance and are designed for durability and ease of use. you can get a bike optimized for light weight, but you absolutely don't have to.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#46

Post by cowmoo728 »

svorakang wrote: post #37
diebeforei485 wrote: post #35

I feel like modern bicycles seem to be optimized for light weight over ease of maintenance and longevity. Modern bicycles (except new e-bikes with chain guards and internal hub gears) require degreasing and lubing every two weeks, These are not going to be very attractive to people who use other means of transport, because cars don't need this sort of frequent maintenance.

I must be doing something terribly wrong. I've had my bike for 7 years now, use it every second day, in all kinds of weather, and I lube it twice a year at best. It ought to be falling apart! What's your basis for your claim of such frequent maintenance? Also, what do you mean by a modern bike?

They will still function but a 12spd Ultegra / Force road bike will eat the chain and cassette and lose shifting precision if they're not maintained regularly. And high end road bike cassettes and chains are expensive to replace.

But when I had a basic hybrid bike I similarly just cleaned it every few months at most when it got dirty from wet rides. Worked fine for years.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#47

Post by harha »

gorjusborg wrote: post #40
ggm wrote: post #2

There's nothing wrong with continuous improvement but when you are trying to fine tune something in the flat portion of an exponential scale, and lets face it, even the most expensive bike shown here is 1/2 the burden of an ICE engine car, you have to ask yourself: is this optimisation really the core problem? I argue: it's not. It's polishing. It's functionally a bit time-wast-y compared to reductions in the cost, a…

The problem is the mindset behind the choices. You don't need disc brakes. You don't need carbon frames, or even aluminum ones. These things are marginally better performing than their predecessors, but we want things to get better and better forever. That is exactly what makes it unsustainable. We'd be better off settling for good and sustainable than best and unsustainable. That's all.

Well you don’t need disk brakes until you do when the car pops up in front of you.

There’s a bunch of people who would gain more from losing weight than whatever the marketing department of the bike company tells them, but it’s great to have this choice. I’m having just as much fun cycling as I do reading up on the tech and tinkering with my bikes, that’s time I’m not spending on being interested in cars.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#48

Post by pfych »

This website offers a lighter weight version of itself if anyone would prefer that[1]. It's so slim the author runs it on a computer running entirely off solar power. It's good to see more of their articles being posted!

[1]: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycl...

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#49

Post by anotherboffin »

schoen wrote: post #28
midoridensha wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of weird brakes do you have on your bike? I can easily buy Shimano Ultegra (which is pretty high-end) brake calipers on Amazon for roughly USD$65, and a big bottle of brake oil is less than $15. Cheaper-brand or lower-end calipers are of course, cheaper, easily less than $50 each. And brake calipers aren't something you normally need to replace anyway. Pads are easily available too, both name-brand and Chin…

> What kind of weird brakes do you have on your bike? Apparently hydraulics, instead of cables. Cf. https://www.bicyclehabitat.com/how-to/disc-brakes-101-pg362.... I have hydraulic brakes on one of my bikes too. They feel great (so accurate and responsive!), but I'm glad I haven't had to get them fixed yet...

You should be able to stay away from most repairs if you check your brake pads regularly and make sure you change them before they fully wear out.

In addition, do know that the discs and even brake fluid will need to be replaced at some point to keep things working well, hope this can avoid a bad surprise!

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#50

Post by leemailll »

htag wrote: post #3

Are there any brands that are specifically known for having highly compatible parts of long lifespans of products?

usually if the bike is not a triathlon bike and the seat post is cylindrical, everything else on the bike beside frame are replaceable with plenty options. And most of the lower end of each brands filled with these
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