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Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

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Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#41

Post by piyh »

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #35
boc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars have something that previous "green" vehicles never had: rapid acceleration. EVs are downright fun to drive. Sure they don't have the handling of a lightweight Porsche, but being able to walk a Mustang GT with an F-150 lightning on the highway drag race is something all the "truck guys" can brag about. That's a very important selling factor, especially from a test-drive perspective. The biggest hurdle i…

Sorry, but that is the dumbest take I ever read.

I drove a Tesla for the first time thinking I was going to like the driver assist and tech the most. The only thing my friends and I could talk about afterwards was how fucking fast the thing was.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#42

Post by wmeredith »

sbaiddn wrote: post #37
hcurtiss wrote: post #3

Combined with the investments in Tennessee, Kentucky, and Michigan, this is "bet the company" levels of investment. I pray for Ford's sake they picked the right horse (vis-à-vis, e.g., hydrogen or ammonia).

Its a regulatory bet, not an engineering one. The West is making a civilizational bet on EVs so it's not Ford that loses the bet, its the entire West. From a technical POV, I disagree with the bet. I think hybridization of ICE while transitioning to CNG+1%NH3 fuel (to have very high compression engines) makes a lot more sense. Afterall, if you can make an ICE match an electrical power plant's carbon emissions, electr…

Even if the carbon emissions match, the drivetrain in an ICE vehicle contains 2,000+ moving parts typically, whereas the drivetrain in an EV contains around 20. The benefits of TVs range beyond direct carbon emissions from the power unit.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#43

Post by robomartin »

sbaiddn wrote: post #37
hcurtiss wrote: post #3

Combined with the investments in Tennessee, Kentucky, and Michigan, this is "bet the company" levels of investment. I pray for Ford's sake they picked the right horse (vis-à-vis, e.g., hydrogen or ammonia).

Its a regulatory bet, not an engineering one. The West is making a civilizational bet on EVs so it's not Ford that loses the bet, its the entire West. From a technical POV, I disagree with the bet. I think hybridization of ICE while transitioning to CNG+1%NH3 fuel (to have very high compression engines) makes a lot more sense. Afterall, if you can make an ICE match an electrical power plant's carbon emissions, electr…

> From a technical POV, I disagree with the bet.

The energy requirements for the kind of full and rapid electrification being pushed (cars, trucks, boats, ships, aircraft, homes) seems daunting to me. Yes, Tesla's Master Plan Part 3 lays it out, and yet the scale of the thing is like nothing the US has done, well, I think I can say, ever.

I mean, we have to build brand-new grid-scale clean energy generation at a scale of almost five times currently installed power generation capacity. That also means the grid capacity to carry it.

My fear is that the haste could create some really serious power problems as the infrastructure lags vehicle deployment.

On the other hand, if things get ugly people won't buy them. This is also a problem. I firmly believe electric cars are the future. We are simply putting fantasy before reality. Reality means that power generation expansion must come first and cars follow based on quotas established to maintain generation/grid integrity.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#44

Post by waiseristy »

Alupis wrote: post #21
phpisthebest wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lot of F-150 buyers that want a good Electric Truck... The F-150 Lightening has a strong launch, and reservation order book... then the actual truck came out and they burned alot of good will with the Community by rushing it to market with poor performance, poor battery tech, etc. The F-150 Lightening was a BAD first showing for Ford, and it will be hard for them to recover from it with F150 owners.

There are two types of F-150 buyers - those who enjoy the idea of having a truck and those who use a truck. F-150 Lightning seems to fulfill nearly ever checkbox wishlist item for the first group... but not much for the second group. I wager we'll see a lot more Lightnings driving around urban/suburban areas than rural or jobsites.

The only people driving F-150s around job sites are management with a stipend. Half ton trucks are a lot less capable then most people think, and are primarily targeted to the former of the two groups you mention

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#45

Post by supergeek »

josefresco wrote: post #31
1970-01-01 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford has the numbers Tesla did in 2020.

Pace of growth is what's important now. I'll look for the numbers but I would guess that Ford is reaching early milestones quicker than Tesla. Not a knock on Tesla, just that it's a different market now.

Their own target for 2026 production capacity is 2 million EVs, actual production at that capacity will then be 2027. Tesla's current 2023 capacity is about 2 million EVs per year.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#46

Post by zamnos »

waiseristy wrote: post #44
Alupis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two types of F-150 buyers - those who enjoy the idea of having a truck and those who use a truck. F-150 Lightning seems to fulfill nearly ever checkbox wishlist item for the first group... but not much for the second group. I wager we'll see a lot more Lightnings driving around urban/suburban areas than rural or jobsites.

The only people driving F-150s around job sites are management with a stipend. Half ton trucks are a lot less capable then most people think, and are primarily targeted to the former of the two groups you mention

What do they drive instead then?

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#47

Post by joewadcan »

DrThunder wrote: post #10

Dumb. Ford's sales are mostly their F-150. Very few people want a lightning and very few can afford them. Imagine dumping $60-$100k+ on something that's worse than it's cheaper ICE version in every way. Also, the used EV market is going to be trash. These are throw away vehicles. The only way they keep selling is government force mandates and rebates.

Better towing, lower maintenance... seems like ICE vehicles are going to need the government subsidy if anyone will even want them

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#49

Post by bravetraveler »

hnuser123456 wrote: post #40
dauertewigkeit wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but that is the dumbest take I ever read.

Look at how many people at unenthused with EVs because they don't make loud noises. If they couldn't at least also go faster...

I'm one of those - I have a dumb appreciation for my V8 after spending so long with economy four cylinders

I recognize the silliness of it, but I really love the vroom vroom and would be at least kind of saddened in an EV

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#50

Post by giobox »

wmeredith wrote: post #42
sbaiddn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a regulatory bet, not an engineering one. The West is making a civilizational bet on EVs so it's not Ford that loses the bet, its the entire West. From a technical POV, I disagree with the bet. I think hybridization of ICE while transitioning to CNG+1%NH3 fuel (to have very high compression engines) makes a lot more sense. Afterall, if you can make an ICE match an electrical power plant's carbon emissions, electr…

Even if the carbon emissions match, the drivetrain in an ICE vehicle contains 2,000+ moving parts typically, whereas the drivetrain in an EV contains around 20. The benefits of TVs range beyond direct carbon emissions from the power unit.

This is the primary reason I wouldn't go back to combustion. The running costs of electric vehicles are absurdly low at times.

You can put 50k-100k miles on most EVs on sale today having only bought cabin air filters, tires and wiper blades in addition to the cost of the electricity - thats largely it!

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