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They’re selling nudes of imaginary women on Reddit

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Re: They’re selling nudes of imaginary women on Reddit

#41

Most developed countries are already worried about declining birth rates (many are already below replacement rates). The rise of AI companions is going to absolutely drop the bottom out of even the most pessimistic birth rate outlooks. It's easy to imagine a future where the majority of all young people give up on trying to establish real relationships and just resort to AI companions for the cheap and easy dopamine.…

On the other hand, if the birth rate decline results in a significant population decline (i.e. not corrected by migration) then there are various balancing economic factors that should counteract it on the scale of a generation or so.

A major component in the affordability to raise a family is the cost housing in desirable locations, which is mostly driven by a population increase there, and would fall during a population decrease; and a decrease in work-aged people combined with an aging population obviously pushes salaries up, if other things in the job market stay equal.

And if we're speaking about the world as a whole, we're so far from a population crisis - the current trends of global birth rates still imply a population growth until something like 10 billion; while even a halving of population from the current number to 4 billion wouldn't be something to be terrified, I mean, the world had 4 billion people during 1970s.

Re: They’re selling nudes of imaginary women on Reddit

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most developed countries are already worried about declining birth rates Yes, because of housing, healthcare, childcare and education costs spiraling out of control and the difficulty of getting well paying jobs to cover those costs are pushing youngsters to spend their youth and most fertile years hunched behind a desk studying and working to climb the corporate ladder to afford a home bigger than a shoebox in the…

I'm sure they play a role, but I have read that even teenagers are having less sex. I don't think teenagers are thinking about housing and childcare when not pursuing sex.

>but I have read that even teenagers are having less sex.

This is a funny way to frame it. A lot of people are trying to stop teenagers from having sex. When I was a teenager the parents sponsored a "post prom" Carnival, I believe with the intent of having kids doing something with their dates after the prom that didn't involve having sex.

Some religious people work every day towards the goal of making sure a female teenager's life will be imperiled if she has a medical problem as a result of sex. And will tell her if she doesn't like it, she shouldn't have had sex.

Who is working in the other direction and trying to get teenagers to have sex?

Re: They’re selling nudes of imaginary women on Reddit

#44

Most developed countries are already worried about declining birth rates (many are already below replacement rates). The rise of AI companions is going to absolutely drop the bottom out of even the most pessimistic birth rate outlooks. It's easy to imagine a future where the majority of all young people give up on trying to establish real relationships and just resort to AI companions for the cheap and easy dopamine.…

The perennial panic on HN over declining birth rates seems like thinly veiled cover for cultural conservatism. First off, if we want to bring the birth rate back up, we would probably do well to implement social policies that makes having kids less of a nightmare for everyone but the very rich or very poor: generous paternal leave, some kind of childcare (a creche-like system), better tax credits, good public schools…

Can you point to some places that have implemented some, or all, of your policies and have seen some sustained growth in birth rates.

Re: They’re selling nudes of imaginary women on Reddit

#45

Most developed countries are already worried about declining birth rates (many are already below replacement rates). The rise of AI companions is going to absolutely drop the bottom out of even the most pessimistic birth rate outlooks. It's easy to imagine a future where the majority of all young people give up on trying to establish real relationships and just resort to AI companions for the cheap and easy dopamine.…

The perennial panic on HN over declining birth rates seems like thinly veiled cover for cultural conservatism. First off, if we want to bring the birth rate back up, we would probably do well to implement social policies that makes having kids less of a nightmare for everyone but the very rich or very poor: generous paternal leave, some kind of childcare (a creche-like system), better tax credits, good public schools…

Demography is in some sense the primary driving factor behind an economy. The ratio of working people to the unproductive cannot stray too low, otherwise you run into the double whammy of economic problems where fewer workers sustain the pensions of more elderly and political problems where the elderly, who wield more political influence, vote to increase their own pensions (or just never decrease, which effectively raises taxes on the working as fewer of them support more elderly) at the expense of the working. The key indicator here is the "age dependency ratio".

> First off, if we want to bring the birth rate back up, we would probably do well to implement social policies that makes having kids less of a nightmare for everyone but the very rich or very poor: generous paternal leave, some kind of childcare (a creche-like system), better tax credits, good public schools, etc. I understand that well-paid developers might be less attuned to this kind of thing, but as a non-dev professional in a HCOL city with a young baby, I promise you that economic factors are the major reason we will not have another child.

Oh boy, tell that to all the developed asian economies. What you're describing is known as pro-natalist policies, and many east asian countries have tried (and failed) to raise fertility by implementing them. South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, all have varying degrees of pro-natalist policies, none of which have been met with much success. I think there's a case to be made that their demographic problems would be worse if they didn't implement these policies though.

> Second, while I understand that the economy is organized around ever-growing populations, it seems like at some point, we'll have to figure out how to deal with declining or flat birthrates. We can't just grow forever, can we? Could the planet really sustain triple or quadruple the current population?

Quite trivially. America alone throws a huge portion of its perfectly good food into making biofuels and feeding livestock; the primary constraint on food is not that we can't grow more, it's that it gets more expensive on the margin. When farmland runs out, you move to hydroponics, then to aeroponics, and those can grow 10x the food in the same amount of space. Water from the oceans is effectively limitless, desalination is just more expensive. Not everybody can have cars, but that's why you build public transit. And on and on it goes. Resources are not finite, it's not a video game where earth has 1000 units of iron and that's it. They just get more expensive on the margin, which then shifts consumption patterns to establish a new equilibrium. Recycling starts becoming profitable, some metals get too expensive and are only used in high-end applications, etc.

Re: They’re selling nudes of imaginary women on Reddit

#46

Most developed countries are already worried about declining birth rates (many are already below replacement rates). The rise of AI companions is going to absolutely drop the bottom out of even the most pessimistic birth rate outlooks. It's easy to imagine a future where the majority of all young people give up on trying to establish real relationships and just resort to AI companions for the cheap and easy dopamine.…

You people and governments want high birth rate but do not want to pay for it.

Re: They’re selling nudes of imaginary women on Reddit

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perennial panic on HN over declining birth rates seems like thinly veiled cover for cultural conservatism. First off, if we want to bring the birth rate back up, we would probably do well to implement social policies that makes having kids less of a nightmare for everyone but the very rich or very poor: generous paternal leave, some kind of childcare (a creche-like system), better tax credits, good public schools…

Demography is in some sense the primary driving factor behind an economy. The ratio of working people to the unproductive cannot stray too low, otherwise you run into the double whammy of economic problems where fewer workers sustain the pensions of more elderly and political problems where the elderly, who wield more political influence, vote to increase their own pensions (or just never decrease, which effectively…

There is some theoretical and practical limits though.

The bigger problem is socioeconomic though, there is simply not enough useful work for that many people — and with advancements fewer and fewer actual jobs will meed to exist. So we are left with a change, for example something like UBI, which would majorly shift our entire economic system.

Re: They’re selling nudes of imaginary women on Reddit

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs getting harder or bot paying well is a odd explanation of low birth rates. After all, quality of life is way better than 100 years ago, and 100 years ago people would have 8 children at like 25.

How is it an odd explanation? the opportunity cost of having children has risen dramatically, that tracks with improved quality of life.

So the opportunity cost in your example is the quality of life that you end up losing by having a child? The missing time that (with our higher quality of life) is way better?

I don’t have any studies to disprove that, so I can’t argue against it.

But then wouldn’t making jobs higher paying and life better make the issue worse? Now kids mean you give up an even better life.

Re: They’re selling nudes of imaginary women on Reddit

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it an odd explanation? the opportunity cost of having children has risen dramatically, that tracks with improved quality of life.

So the opportunity cost in your example is the quality of life that you end up losing by having a child? The missing time that (with our higher quality of life) is way better? I don’t have any studies to disprove that, so I can’t argue against it. But then wouldn’t making jobs higher paying and life better make the issue worse? Now kids mean you give up an even better life.

>But then wouldn’t making jobs higher paying and life better make the issue worse?

Yes, which is what we see in the data. People with higher incomes have fewer children than those with lower incomes.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-fam...

Re: They’re selling nudes of imaginary women on Reddit

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the opportunity cost in your example is the quality of life that you end up losing by having a child? The missing time that (with our higher quality of life) is way better? I don’t have any studies to disprove that, so I can’t argue against it. But then wouldn’t making jobs higher paying and life better make the issue worse? Now kids mean you give up an even better life.

>But then wouldn’t making jobs higher paying and life better make the issue worse? Yes, which is what we see in the data. People with higher incomes have fewer children than those with lower incomes. https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-fam...

Okay that would make sense, but that does support my original comment, which was:

“Jobs getting harder or bot paying well is a odd explanation of low birth rates.”

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