I’ve done few math pre requisites at community college. In my experience, the educators care a lot about the students. They are very helpful.
More than a third of community college students have vanished
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Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#42It is a bit of paradox that community colleges are, in theory, what every talking head and commentator are asking colleges to be—direct, cheap, no frill, about the education only—and yet there is no other college type that is seeing a more precipitous enrollment drop off than community colleges and technical schools. The answer, and no one likes this, is what people say they want and what they actually want as voted…
The only vote that matters is college graduate HR personnel, and their vote is that CC and associates degrees are lower than worthless, literally a waste of time, would be more likely to hire with two years of entry level or minimum wage work than with an associates degree.
Any CC student whom is motivated by employment is flushing their money down the toilet if they're on a track or a program.
I was in a transfer program along with several other kids and that program worked very well, but "most" people paying for CC are wasting their money.
The non-credit courses are, however, a good deal and an excellent way to learn and skill up. Note that paying 100x as much to make those courses "credit" courses is worthless if the degree or cert granted is considered worthless in the workplace. And the institution cannot stay in business if everyone takes non-credit courses instead of being on a very expensive "associates degree" or "certificate" path.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#43I have been doing some research on vocations and community college courses in USA. It’s hell. Most of them don’t make their curriculum
easily accessible. They don’t show the price. They treat visitors like some sort of corporate funnel where they take personal information up front like contact info etc and then say “they'll get back to you later”. As a potential international (Canadian) student, I haven’t heard back yet. This is terrible experience. Contrast this to Canadian colleges like Centennial, Humber, Conestoga, etc. Their websites are clear and easy to navigate, you can find the curriculum you’ll be studying and the price you’ll be paying with no sales funnel wall. I don’t get it. Why is USA education system such a joke?
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is usually a path for two years of cheaper community college with transferable credits to two final years at a state university.
Problem being that community colleges will happily lie to your face about what does and does not transfer and most community college students aren't going to lawyer up about it.
To be fair, what transfers is determined by the school you're transferring to. Then on top of that you have to match up the requirements for your major, i.e. you might have a CC science course that is accepted by the university but doesn't meet the science required by your major. I suspect there are a LOT of CC students who only have vague goals of transferring somewhere to finish a four year degree (I was one of them many years ago), and in many cases it's just going to be difficult to give them solid advice.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#45Universities are about a few things: 1. Education - Inspiration and job training 2. High-achieving peer groups 3. Prestige and signalling 4. Fun and independence Online courses do #1 better than CCs. Dorms are essential to #4, so CCs miss out on it. There is no prestige associated with CCs and the titular community isn't especially high achieving. What value do CCs provide ?
Though I don't entirely agree, your premises are incorrect.
1. Online is not inherently better than a CC. A CC is not entirely in person, either.
2. High achieving peer groups are not necessary. They simply need to be good enough
3. Prestige and signaling is relative - again this is adjusted to the community. A community where there are not schools could still benefit from a CC.
4. You could certainly fun at a CC, but you're right that the dorms help a lot.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that’s missing one big piece. What people really want cheap education that ends with a degree that is as well regarded as an Ivy or good state college degree. Community colleges, for better or worse, are seen as inferior education. So they are not equivalent to simply a cheaper option of more expensive schools.
There is usually a path for two years of cheaper community college with transferable credits to two final years at a state university.
I did this and was 100% successful, although the article propagandizes by asking what percentage of students once considered possibly obtaining a bachelors degree in the future which I'm sure is very high, whereas I was in a specific program with a specific track directly primarily toward cooperating with the transfer schools, so our success rate was very high (something like 80% got their BS degree along with me).
Also my CC fed the state U system and three private colleges, not solely state U.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#47Quality of education was the real issue for my son compared to when I attended the same school.
I was taught by local business leaders and real human instructors while he was 'guided' through many online sessions using computer-based curriculum. This strategic change dramatically lowered his interactive learning opportunities and made success very difficult. Frankly, it was the one of the most disappointing thing I had ever seen.
Ultimately, he gave up and switched to a technical school and moved on with his life rather than dig a mountain of debt for nothing.
People vote with their dollars and their feet.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#48I have been doing some research on vocations and community college courses in USA. It’s hell. Most of them don’t make their curriculum easily accessible. They don’t show the price. They treat visitors like some sort of corporate funnel where they take personal information up front like contact info etc and then say “they'll get back to you later”. As a potential international (Canadian) student, I haven’t heard back…
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Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#49My wife briefly (a couple of semesters) tried to go through a software development curriculum at our community college, which is apparently decently funded as community colleges go. Having gone through a 4-year Bachelor's in Computer Engineering at an ABET accredited university, the community college program was pathetic by comparison. There was one professor who seemed to have his shit together and worth the money.…
I don't know if that was the schools issue or what is going on in higher-education in general. I've been out of college for over 30 years but I like to take a class every year to learn things -I like a classroom setting. The first time I did this it was at the local CC and the prof was really behind the times are far as what is going on in industry, I learned a lot of good basics but I felt bad for the other students because they were learning stuff that was relevant 5 years ago. That said the students were fucking horrible, they were on their phones or playing games on the computers and didn't contribute or pay very much attention. The prof didn't seem to care and gave everyone an A because he didn't want to figure out Virtual Box. I've taken other classes at other universities, some of the best in the country and I'm not particularly impressed some are good and others are indifferent, like so many things you get out what you put in and you can't rely on a prof to inspire you.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#50>“You need help with your classes and financial aid? Well, here, take a number and run from office to office and see if you can figure it out.” >“I’ve had to go out of my way to find people, and if they didn’t know the answer, they would send me to somebody else, usually by email.” Hearing back from the financial aid office, she said, can take a month. State schools are like this too.
Absolutely. The article makes it sound like problems with poor advising are confined to community colleges. That's ludicrous.
And it's not just state schools. When my wife went back to RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology, an expensive private school) to study photography, nobody there could even answer questions like: What courses do I need to graduate? Knowing that might be useful!
A lot of the student management systems used at many schools are extremely antiquated. Degree requirements are expressed in ways that make it difficult or impossible to create tools to help students plan their schedules and stay on track to receive their degree on time. Registration can make it hard for students to enroll in courses they need to complete their program. Many advisers are doing their best, and come up with hacks and workaround to try and help individual students, but access to advising can be limited and advisers are also affected by the poor data and tooling.
And of course, it's worth pointing out that universities are positioned to benefit from student mistakes. Didn't realize that you needed that course to graduate? See you next semester! Make sure to bring your (or your family's) checkbook. I'm sorry you couldn't register for that popular course as an undergraduate! Have you considered our MS programs?
These problems are not limited to community colleges.