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Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

nicole.express

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Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#41

Post by bullen »

tomxor wrote: post #31
bullen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PSVR2 has persistence problems due to the pancake lenses taking up too much light. Basically the strobing can't be short enough (to not induce smear) because that would dim the picture too much. It makes everyone sick. The top of the line is still Quest 2, the display (120Hz) and fresnel lenses are better than most more expensive alternatives. And with DAS FrankenQuest you have comfort. Unfortunately Echo VR (the…

I can attest to quest2 not being motion sickness inducing, although I don't have any comparative experience. There is also the issue of subjective motion sickness sensitivity that seems to conflate comparisons, some seem to get sick in any VR with certain games or environments, and everyone gets sick in some specific VR headsets. If you don't get motion sick easily, quest2 is pretty comfortable, and once you find som…

I meant native as in compiled to fast/minimal native machine code, the other games are all Unity/Unreal potato VM games, all 263/266 of them... with GC = sickness. The Climbs are Cryengine which might not have GC but still is bloated to hell.

Should have said "custom", but then that could also be misunderstood.

In my experience (I made the first VR MMO: http://aeonalpha.com, with the wrong programming language!) high refresh rates in sensor reading (faked by Oculus/Valve) combined with locomotion that the brain does not immediately associate with human motion are the best solutions after hardware.

But I will make my 3D action voxel MMO 3rd person just to make sure, if your head is the camera you wont get sick as easily, specially at 120Hz.

120 FPS at low persistence is the bare minimum if you want to not get ill from any smooth movement during long sessions = Echo VR is the ONLY game that is playable on Quest 2.

Non-smooth movement games are more of a slideshow/shooting gallery; (see HL:A :S) akin to the early fixed space 3D games on cd-rom if you remember those, which funnily HL was the first (after quake that I never played) to break:

I fondly remember me and my brothers jaws dropping simultaneously when we by mistake moved the mouse during the intro, we both 100% thought it was pre-rendered.

The difference is now we have permanently peaked in hardware, so we need to solve things with software.

I haven't tried "Tea for God" yet, kinda dreading the adb install since computers can get bricked when you do real work on them these days.

Baffling that in 6 years, 1 billion humans (that could have bought a headset and built something) only managed to create 3 custom engines for VR: Source 2, Lone Echo and "Tea for God".

Odds are not looking good.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#42

Post by Tommstein »

edent wrote: post #9
ytreyrty wrote: post #8

will 3D/VR ever really become mainstream? i recently bought a PSVR2, the tech seemed amazing but i had to return it due to horrible motion sickness. we're at almost 30 years of the tech still not being ready for prime time.

Not until they overcome the need for the viewer to do something . Moving from mono sound to stereo doesn't require anything of the listener. Going from black and white to colour doesn't require you wear special equipment. But 3D? You have to put on special glasses which you also have to remember to charge. Oh, and you can't look at other things while you're using them. There were some passive 3D displays (the Nintend…

> But 3D? You have to put on special glasses which you also have to remember to charge. Oh, and you can't look at other things while you're using them.

Passive 3-D glasses exist, and you can very much look at whatever you want while wearing them.

> There were some passive 3D displays (the Nintendo 3DS and a few early Android phones) but they required the user to stay in exactly the right position, or the illusion was destroyed. So you couldn't easily share the experience with a friend.

I had an HTC EVO 3D, and would kill to get that technology back. If friends and I can only look at stuff in 2-D at the same time, fine, nothing lost over the current status quo. But looking back at your pictures and videos in actual 3-D immerses you in the moment again in a way that's hard to describe.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#43

Post by sudosysgen »

edent wrote: post #22
sudosysgen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These kinds of VR headsets don't need to be charged (they are wired) and you can press a button to see the real world through the cameras.

So now I need to be physically tethered to my seat? Do I press the button on the left or the right? Is it one tap to see the real world or two?

The cable is long enough that your room will run out before you run out of cable, so no need to be tethered to your seat.

Generally to pass through the real world you'd do something like simulatenously press two easily accessible buttons on your tracked controller. It is really very easy and I use it often.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#44

Post by vlunkr »

alliao wrote: post #36
vlunkr wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very popular right now, but it's really hard to tell if it's just a fad. Motion controls had a huge wave of popularity starting with the Wii, but that died off. It will be interesting to see.

I blame Nintendo... it's rare for a next gen to perform worse than previous gen, but that's what happened to wiimote, the supposedly "HD" joycon just don't have enough fidelity when compared with Wiimote, I doubt it performs better than wiimote when tracking in air.

The wii is probably not as good as you remember. I don’t know the technical terms, but the original controller didn’t actually do 1:1 tracking. Someone smarter than me explains here:

https://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~okreylos/ResDev/Wiimote/MainPage...

They added motion plus later, which was better, but also required frequent recalibration.

In addition to Nintendo, MS and Sony took a shot at it. I don’t blame Nintendo, I think people just stopped caring.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#45

Post by anonred »

bullen wrote: post #41
tomxor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can attest to quest2 not being motion sickness inducing, although I don't have any comparative experience. There is also the issue of subjective motion sickness sensitivity that seems to conflate comparisons, some seem to get sick in any VR with certain games or environments, and everyone gets sick in some specific VR headsets. If you don't get motion sick easily, quest2 is pretty comfortable, and once you find som…

I meant native as in compiled to fast/minimal native machine code, the other games are all Unity/Unreal potato VM games, all 263/266 of them... with GC = sickness. The Climbs are Cryengine which might not have GC but still is bloated to hell. Should have said "custom", but then that could also be misunderstood. In my experience (I made the first VR MMO: http://aeonalpha.com , with the wrong programming language!) hig…

I think both your premise and conclusion is wrong.

You make it sound like VR motion sickness is the norm, but it’s really not. Tons of people play VR games every day with smooth locomotion, on “potato VM” game engines, at 72 or 90 Hz without issue.

Even if perf were a widespread issue, building a custom game engine for VR probably shouldn’t be your first choice when there’s so many easier ways to optimize.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#46

Post by p1necone »

Tommstein wrote: post #40
mardifoufs wrote: post #13

>240p is fake and a lie, but close enough for us I want to know more :) and my googling skills are failling me. But I didn't even realize you could do 240p/60hz on a CRT. To be honest I even assumed that CRT more or less means interlaced for some reason... Edit: ok, I should've clicked the links in the article! This page pretty much completely answers my questions! https://nicole.express/2021/interlace-me-not.html

Man, you used to be able to write X modelines to get CRTs to do just about anything you wanted as long as they were physically capable of it. I think it was an ancient version of this guide that I followed many a time to get a new CRT up to . . . let's call it peak performance: https://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/XFree86-Video-Timings-HOW...

There's actually custom AMD GPU firmware called CRT emudriver for older cards that still had analogue output to push custom modelines to CRTS: http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1009...

It's used in the retro gaming community to get hardware accurate video output from emulators.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#47

Post by richardjam73 »

mardifoufs wrote: post #13

>240p is fake and a lie, but close enough for us I want to know more :) and my googling skills are failling me. But I didn't even realize you could do 240p/60hz on a CRT. To be honest I even assumed that CRT more or less means interlaced for some reason... Edit: ok, I should've clicked the links in the article! This page pretty much completely answers my questions! https://nicole.express/2021/interlace-me-not.html

That article reminds me of a certain question I had recently. Is it possible to design a crt type video display that doesn't suffer from phospor loss?

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#48

Post by p1necone »

mardifoufs wrote: post #13

>240p is fake and a lie, but close enough for us I want to know more :) and my googling skills are failling me. But I didn't even realize you could do 240p/60hz on a CRT. To be honest I even assumed that CRT more or less means interlaced for some reason... Edit: ok, I should've clicked the links in the article! This page pretty much completely answers my questions! https://nicole.express/2021/interlace-me-not.html

For anyone else curious the TLDR is that 240p is really 480i with tweaked timings so that the lines from the two interlaced frames strike the screen in the same place.

This is also why a lot of old 240p consoles (NES/Master System through to PS1/N64/Saturn ) look even worse on modern TVs than you would expect them to - the TV tries to deinterlace the signal, but it's not really interlaced. With a 240p aware linedoubler converting your signal to 480p HDMI you can get much better results, and much lower latency.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#49

Post by Melraidin »

computronus wrote: post #25

My favorite project ever in undergraduate was getting these glasses to work with a PC. We got the specs (pun intended) from online resources and a how-to VR book published at the time (mid-90s). My partner designed / assembled the circuit board to interface the glasses to the PC's serial port, and I wrote a display driver that would switch video pages and simultaneously trigger the glasses to flip shutters. The resul…

Was it this book? https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1990755

I hacked up a Powerglove to connect to my PC. Always wanted to get the Sega glasses too but didn't have the resources at the time.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#50

Post by computronus »

Melraidin wrote: post #49
computronus wrote: post #25

My favorite project ever in undergraduate was getting these glasses to work with a PC. We got the specs (pun intended) from online resources and a how-to VR book published at the time (mid-90s). My partner designed / assembled the circuit board to interface the glasses to the PC's serial port, and I wrote a display driver that would switch video pages and simultaneously trigger the glasses to flip shutters. The resul…

Was it this book? https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1990755 I hacked up a Powerglove to connect to my PC. Always wanted to get the Sega glasses too but didn't have the resources at the time.

I think it was this one, The Virtual Reality Construction Kit by Gradecki. The cover looks very familiar!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3165591-the-virtual-real...

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