Live data from Hacker News

Electricity Prices by Country

electricrate.com

41–50 of 312 posts

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $0.0005 / kWh A typo, surely?

In July 2022, the average price I paid was 0.0192 NOK / kWh - so that's around $0.0018 / kWh. But that was the monthly average price, the daily minimum can be much lower.

Now I know where to build my LLM focussed data-center

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#42

The actual data comes from here: https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices/ It bundles distribution and electricity prices. In NZ the wholesale price is the same accross the country (marginal pricing), but different distribution companies charge different rates.

Weird that the source includes NZ but the article didn’t.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#43
post #19

Another complication with these numbers are the delivery/connection fees. In Toronto, my marginal rate is probably around US$0.08/kWh, but my usage in a double occupancy condo unit with the connection fee works out to US$0.22/kWh on average. One would hope that this just means I’m cross-subsidizing heavier users but in reality my metering provider is owned by a partnership in Bermuda. In reality, some ??? shareholder…

Is that the base daily meter rate or monthly meter rate causing the extra $0.14/kwh cost? Sounds like your using very little power. Local grids are generally a fixed cost to maintain, if there was no base charge your neighbors would be subsidizing the maintenance of your connection to the grid. Separating fixed cost from marginal cost is the equitable solution in this case.

Yes, CAD$17 for the 190kwh itself and CAD$39 in fixed charges.

hot water is central and heat is effectively central, so low direct usage (so why meter) but not too far off the average for my building.

There are about a hundred units each paying a separate fixed cost in one building. Anyone that thinks the cost/unit is the same to light up 100 detached homes is crazy. But that’s how the government regulated the billing (guess what kind of housing the decision makers live in?), which is why the Bermudan partnership jumped in to collect the distribution fees instead of letting the local utility collect that easy money.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#44
post #14

This is overly simplified. A few aspects come to mind that have huge effects, in orders of magnitude: * Price differences during day/week/seasons. Cold day? Electricity can be 2-3x higher than the day before. Lots of sun/wind? Price plummets. ... * Price differences in regions. Norway, Sweden, Germany, those alone have huge differences in electricity prices depending on where you live. * Pricing relative to economic…

Maybe it strikes you as propaganda because you disagree with what it seems to indicate?

Why would it matter if people in Berlin pay more than people in Munich, or vice versa? Energy policies are generally national, so national data is the correct level of granularity.

Most of your criticisms seem to stem from a lack of understanding as to what the word "average" means.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#45
post #14

This is overly simplified. A few aspects come to mind that have huge effects, in orders of magnitude: * Price differences during day/week/seasons. Cold day? Electricity can be 2-3x higher than the day before. Lots of sun/wind? Price plummets. ... * Price differences in regions. Norway, Sweden, Germany, those alone have huge differences in electricity prices depending on where you live. * Pricing relative to economic…

Yes, but these are averages so it shouldn't matter. Assuming this is total spent in all households over a year, divided by population, it accounts for all fluctuations in time and region. And at the end of the day, all that really matters is what you paid over the year.

And they already have a chart that adjusts for average wages as well.

So nothing whatsoever here strikes me as misleading or propaganda. Averages are a totally legitimate comparison tool between countries.

I'm actually curious just what you imagine this could even be "propaganda" for. Because it seems like just an incredibly fact-based neutral overview to me. I don't see any agenda at all, unless there's a sentence or paragraph I missed?

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#48

Is the price in Germany so high because they made the somewhat rash decision to shut down their existing nuclear generation and move back to fossil fuels? Given their location in the world I'm guessing both solar and wind are marginal producers.

Wind is strong in Northern Germany. It's mostly taxes and taxes being taxed additionally by other taxes, a good chunk of that was/is for transitioning to green energy and subsidizing home solar.

The EEG (surcharge on the electricity bill to subsidize the installation of both commercial and private wind and solar generation) has been phased out as of 1. July 2022.

According to [1], about 75% of the price per kw/h in Germany is shared between the producer of the electricity and the owner of the network. As the market for electricity is completely liberalized, those can be any of hundreds of companies.

The rest, about 25% are various taxes and surcharges.

While renewable energies are responsible for some of the above average electricity prices in Germany, the recent price surge is mostly due to the high price of natural gas. Germany electricity prices are fixed by a system of auctions, where the demand at any given point in time is fulfilled by the producers willing to charge the least amount of money, but the actual price is set by the most expensive bid that is still required to satisfy demand. Due to the peculiarities of the electricity markets, this often ends up being natural gas power stations and natural gas has become crazy expensive due to Russia cutting off exports to Germany.

[1] https://strom-report.com/strompreise/strompreis-zusammensetz...

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#49

Another complication with these numbers are the delivery/connection fees. In Toronto, my marginal rate is probably around US$0.08/kWh, but my usage in a double occupancy condo unit with the connection fee works out to US$0.22/kWh on average. One would hope that this just means I’m cross-subsidizing heavier users but in reality my metering provider is owned by a partnership in Bermuda. In reality, some ??? shareholder…

Toronto Hydro† also has time-of-use rates: * https://www.torontohydro.com/for-home/rates † Mostly due to historical reason of early generator stations being hydro-electric (water falls), electricity is called "hydro" in many parts of Canada.

But if you’re submetered, the entire building has to collectively choose between time of day or tiered.

For most condo/apartment dwellers, and often smaller homeowners, they’ll pay less overall on tiered plans instead of time-of-day billing.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#50

> Other fossil fuels are coal, petroleum, natural gas, propane, and uranium. Uranium?

I guess you could call Uranium nuclei star fossils?

There are theories that at least some oil is abiogenic, which would make oil the same kind of fossil as uranium is.
Post reply on HN