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Database “sharding” came from Ultima Online?

raphkoster.com

41–50 of 92 posts

Re: Database “sharding” came from Ultima Online?

#41

as i recall, they devised their own scripting language, and they relied solely on flatfiles to track world-state… then every day at a given time, each server would have an off-hours save where the flatfiles would be persisted. players caught on to this, and would take advantage by having "server wars" during these save windows, when changes wouldn't be persisted, and would all equip their best kit and battle at certa…

UO:Renaissance was the best era of UO. Two worlds separated by moonstones to separate open-pvp with non-pvp. My younger brother and I would hang out in Briton in Felucia (open-pvp) and kill anyone trying to cross over with loot or anyone coming over with gear.

Re: Database “sharding” came from Ultima Online?

#42

Ultima ][ Was one of my first games, which I found on a floppy left in an Apple ][e in 8th grade ~1990 or so... which got me and my best friend into gaming (and trouble) Later, I was one of two on the Developer Relations Group (along with said best friend) @SC5 Intel and my cube was right next to Andy Grove - we had the same pee-schedule, for whatever reason Andy and I always seemed to only intersect in the restroom…

This is such a wholesome, nostalgic post. It makes me wish I could take a time machine back to the 90’s and do it all over again.

Man describes how they were utterly horrible to other players in multiplayer game, using $$$ advantage

wholesome fucking indeed

Re: Database “sharding” came from Ultima Online?

#43
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exact same here. Coding a script for my miner to automatically hit the high value ore spots and detect if any PK was in the area (and recall to safety) was one of my first major programming achievements! I recall making a similar comment to Raph Koster in a hacker news thread a few years ago. He didn't seem all that pleased about it, lol.

exactly!! PK's are the best anti-cheat. just make your game full loot and competitive, you dont need anti-cheat.

PK’s in UO were never very effective at deterring unattended resource-gathering (the main ‘cheat’ the staff fought so hard against). I recall having my group of friends all make fishermen at the same time and we reached grandmaster fishing skill in a week or two of 24/7 fishing.

Once we had those characters, there was no stopping us from quickly amassing enough wealth to buy our own castle. It was rather ridiculous. We also ended up with vast numbers of magic weapons and armour, magical reagents, gems, scrolls, and furniture. It ruins the entire economy of the game.

EasyUO was a big part of that. Someone had written a MIB (message in a bottle) script which would decode the coordinates from a bag full of MIBs and allow you to sail to the nearest one to begin fishing it up. It greatlyy streamlined the process of fishing up hundreds of those shipwreck treasure chests!

Re: Database “sharding” came from Ultima Online?

#44
post #13

EasyUO scripting was my introduction to programming at age 14. By the time I got to college I was already a professional coder and I was able to enjoy CS as a recapitulation or reinterpretation of my foundational understanding instead of a dogmatic prescribed methodology as I saw in my object oriented/relational database bound peers. UO really sparked my whole life's passion accidentally by leaving the memory and reg…

There are a lot of kids learning to code in Lua on Roblox, maybe it’ll be the dominant language for backend programming in 20 years.

Re: Database “sharding” came from Ultima Online?

#45
post #13

EasyUO scripting was my introduction to programming at age 14. By the time I got to college I was already a professional coder and I was able to enjoy CS as a recapitulation or reinterpretation of my foundational understanding instead of a dogmatic prescribed methodology as I saw in my object oriented/relational database bound peers. UO really sparked my whole life's passion accidentally by leaving the memory and reg…

I had a similar experience in past with MUDs. I mean it provides an incentive to learn programming but cheating is cheating. Popular competitive games would be dead if they didn't fight against cheating. I consider anti-cheat measures a necessary evil

Scripting menial tasks is probably lowest form of cheating but still cheating. Would it be ok if someone made a bot that plays perfect PVP?

There are plenty of games that allows modding. Or games that are focused on programming. Plenty of opportunities to learn scripting in more legit ways.

Re: Database “sharding” came from Ultima Online?

#46

Anyone recommend a UO-like experience these days?

That's... pretty difficult.

UO had quite a few things going for it.

1) Nowhere was safe(although many places specially remote ones in the wilderness were totally chill). Cities had guards, but you (or someone else) would have to call them. This enabled all sorts of gameplay, including theft. But this was ok because...

2) Items were not too powerful. Classic UO you could get a +9 Sword of Vanquishing or whatever. While it did give you a nice edge (pun intended), it wasn't really worth walking around with it in your normal activities, because of (1) and also...

3) Items stayed in your corpse when you died(until the 'insurance system' that is). So even if you had better gear, you would normally walk around with gear that was easier to replace. And you didn't have to necessarily pay for that because there was...

4) Lots of crafting skills. One could train blacksmithing/mining and mine away. There was a risk involved in these activities, as usual. But other than time, you could have a character that could build any gear you would need - they would be plain boring non-magical, but good enough for any foe in the world, if you knew what you were doing. You would probably do this with another character because...

5) 700 skill cap. So you could grandmaster 7 skills, or spread this across more skills(some characters would get just enough magery to use recall runes). Which also meant that characters would not get exponentially powerful. As long as you had trained the skills you wanted to use, it didn't really matter if your character was one month old or 5 years old. The field was pretty level pretty quick, no one-shotting newbies (really [young] characters were protected) and one could not just spam magic due to...

6) Reagent requirements. Spells were really powerful but really expensive. They took mana and physical reagents that you had to buy in order to cast them. Ran out of reagents? Too bad, time to use that stick. Someone stole them from you? If you survive you are walking home today. If you died, you won't respawn somewhere else, you still need to walk home. But that's fine as you had...

7) Items. Items galore. The land itself had resources. Want some arrows? If you have the skills, go kill some birds and chop trees. Want bandages? Cut up the ressurrection robe (after you found a wandering healer or a friendly player to ressurrect you). Saw a horse? If you have taming, go tame it. I remember dying in the middle of nowhere and returning home fully equipped - bow, arrows, leather armor, horseback. This was revolutionary at that time - and kinda still is in massively multiplayer games. This also leads to memorable moments. Like the time when people got fed up at some 'player killer' and a group stood outside their house. Dude wouldn't come out, so people started bringing tables, chairs, food, and they had a whole picnic in front of his house.

I could go on and on. I am not even touching on the lore, which had many previous games to draw from.

There are games that are harsh(nowhere is safe, dying has stakes, etc), have no classes, player created items, no 'respawns', lots of items to play with, but the exact interplay of gameplay elements is difficult to find. I've considered EVE Online as 'UO in space'. Being a corporate space dystopia it does not have the same "cozy" vibe that even the harshest Ultima Online environments had. Dying was actually fun a lot of the time. Valheim has the closest "vibe" but it's still a little bit on the soft side, and is not an MMO (A MMORPG Valheim, if properly done, would be phenomenal). Rust was mentioned but I do not think it hits the same spot.

Kal Vas Xen Corp!

Re: Database “sharding” came from Ultima Online?

#47
post #13

EasyUO scripting was my introduction to programming at age 14. By the time I got to college I was already a professional coder and I was able to enjoy CS as a recapitulation or reinterpretation of my foundational understanding instead of a dogmatic prescribed methodology as I saw in my object oriented/relational database bound peers. UO really sparked my whole life's passion accidentally by leaving the memory and reg…

There are a lot of kids learning to code in Lua on Roblox, maybe it’ll be the dominant language for backend programming in 20 years.

Tons of people learned using BASIC, but that never really took off for serious programming outside of a couple niches (like frontends / desktop apps made in Visual Basic).

Re: Database “sharding” came from Ultima Online?

#48
post #13

EasyUO scripting was my introduction to programming at age 14. By the time I got to college I was already a professional coder and I was able to enjoy CS as a recapitulation or reinterpretation of my foundational understanding instead of a dogmatic prescribed methodology as I saw in my object oriented/relational database bound peers. UO really sparked my whole life's passion accidentally by leaving the memory and reg…

There are a lot of kids learning to code in Lua on Roblox, maybe it’ll be the dominant language for backend programming in 20 years.

And there’s more competition coming in this space with Epic’s Unreal Engine for Fortnite (UEFN) and Verse (which is going to land into the base UE5 engine soon according to their talks, so useful outside of Fortnite!)

Re: Database “sharding” came from Ultima Online?

#49
post #13

EasyUO scripting was my introduction to programming at age 14. By the time I got to college I was already a professional coder and I was able to enjoy CS as a recapitulation or reinterpretation of my foundational understanding instead of a dogmatic prescribed methodology as I saw in my object oriented/relational database bound peers. UO really sparked my whole life's passion accidentally by leaving the memory and reg…

I had a similar experience in past with MUDs. I mean it provides an incentive to learn programming but cheating is cheating. Popular competitive games would be dead if they didn't fight against cheating. I consider anti-cheat measures a necessary evil Scripting menial tasks is probably lowest form of cheating but still cheating. Would it be ok if someone made a bot that plays perfect PVP? There are plenty of games th…

There are places for this kind of play, but I suppose they don’t give the same kind of thrill. Bot vs Bot scripting challenges online, like Battlecode https://battlecode.org/

Re: Database “sharding” came from Ultima Online?

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of kids learning to code in Lua on Roblox, maybe it’ll be the dominant language for backend programming in 20 years.

Tons of people learned using BASIC, but that never really took off for serious programming outside of a couple niches (like frontends / desktop apps made in Visual Basic).

If you're counting VB, it was huge, just not cool. Nobody ever talked about it, but people built tons of really effective custom software for banks and the like. Maybe you don't consider that serious programming, but it was probably the most successful product of the RAD desktop era.

I vaguely recall a Joel Spolsky (?) podcast years ago mentioning that everyone thought it was dead, but a survey showed something crazy like 30k active developers worldwide. And that was classic VB, not VB.Net.

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