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Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#41

Post by liminalsunset »

While some of the behaviour here is less professional than I'd expect for user data, I'm wondering what a good architecture for building a system to leverage visual telemetry without harming user privacy would really look like.

The problem is that:

1) It's very difficult to manually or automatically scrub identifying information from video, and doing so probably greatly reduces the value of the data for AI training purposes

2) If you allow users to delete videos that have been sent, then you no longer have a reproducible corpus of data

3) If you keep the recordings for say, a week, and allow the user to delete them before they're sent, either users don't have the time to review it (reviewing hundreds of Sentry clips comes to mind), or are going to just forget about it and we'll have the same problem.

I suspect they do not want to talk about the data collection too much in general, because just like how Spotify built a major value add (we have lots of playlists) off of tricking users into making user playlists public by default (it's actually very non obvious when playlists are created), having a huge fleet of cars recording video is hugely valuable for development of self driving.

I think where I'm conflicted is that at the same time as I personally consider this kind of thing an invasion of privacy and overall a nuisance, I recognize that there is societal good/value to be gleaned from mass collection of datasets. If we asked users whether they wanted to share their playlists or car video recordings, you would end up with almost no data, and the data you got would invariably be biased (see Apple Music and the paucity of good user playlists).

Clearly there's a missing middle solution, but I'm not sure there is a good one.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#43

Post by GavinMcG »

ColanR wrote: post #27
GavinMcG wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a horrifying view of the world even on its face, but also: even if we anticipate that people might do the wrong thing, it is still wrong and it is still appropriate to condemn that wrong and call for justice.

> This is a horrifying view of the world even on its face The alternative is easily classified as naiveté.

Yes, fine, but lacking all naiveté is a horrifying view of the world. We must have mechanisms for achieving justice after wrongdoing, and have faith that we can trust each other to do the right thing.

Cf. Shaw: “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#44

Post by abdullahkhalids »

varun_chopra wrote: post #32

Reminds me of the time I bought lunch at work, and a colleague told me exactly what I bought and how much I paid for it. I called him out and said it was a lucky guess, and then he proceeded to tell me my entire payment history for the past 2 days. Turns out when I was buying lunch, he was on the phone with a friend who worked at Paytm and that guy gave away my transaction history for shits and giggles. My trust in p…

I was at a hackathon once, and they had a startup fair, where various companies had their booths.

One startup had created a student-management system for schools. And the rep was demoing the system. Except with live data. Showing pages of real students with their pictures, home addresses, etc!

So, principles aside, the actions of companies are such that there can be no trust.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#46

Post by jjulius »

sneak wrote: post #35
addisonl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d expect that they don’t let employees have “easy access to the cameras' output” and for them to be able to share them “freely with other employees”. Are you really victim blaming here? Nasty.

It's not victim blaming. They opted in to this when they bought a Tesla; the privacy policy clearly allows Tesla staff to access all data the car generates. It's available to anyone to review before purchase. If you don't want it, don't buy a Tesla.

Yeah, it is victim blaming. The expectation is that they're going to use that data to improve the vehicle, or something within that realm, not turn the videos/images into memes and then pass them around for the yucks.

Edit: I'm open minded; in addition to downvoting, I'm genuinely curious why folk might think that I am incorrect here. Happy to correct my thought process.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#47

Post by lisasays »

varun_chopra wrote: post #32

Reminds me of the time I bought lunch at work, and a colleague told me exactly what I bought and how much I paid for it. I called him out and said it was a lucky guess, and then he proceeded to tell me my entire payment history for the past 2 days. Turns out when I was buying lunch, he was on the phone with a friend who worked at Paytm and that guy gave away my transaction history for shits and giggles. My trust in p…

I'm so glad I've never heard of that service and have no idea what it is.

Thanks very much for calling them out by name, BTW. Presumably someone from that company is reading this as we speak - and soon enough, will be reporting back to us that that employee has been identified, and of course, duly fired.

Right, PayTM?

(BTW - that's some "colleague" you have).

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#48

Post by dilippkumar »

varun_chopra wrote: post #32

Reminds me of the time I bought lunch at work, and a colleague told me exactly what I bought and how much I paid for it. I called him out and said it was a lucky guess, and then he proceeded to tell me my entire payment history for the past 2 days. Turns out when I was buying lunch, he was on the phone with a friend who worked at Paytm and that guy gave away my transaction history for shits and giggles. My trust in p…

India really needs a massive overhaul of its digital privacy laws.

I still remember when Blackberry had to pull out of India because the government wouldn’t let them operate a secure, encrypted messaging service.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#49

Post by chickenpotpie »

sneak wrote: post #35
addisonl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d expect that they don’t let employees have “easy access to the cameras' output” and for them to be able to share them “freely with other employees”. Are you really victim blaming here? Nasty.

It's not victim blaming. They opted in to this when they bought a Tesla; the privacy policy clearly allows Tesla staff to access all data the car generates. It's available to anyone to review before purchase. If you don't want it, don't buy a Tesla.

It is victim blaming. No reasonable person can keep up with all the privacy notices in their life. Did you read your cars privacy notices? How about your email? Your phone? Your kids school website? What about the terms and conditions for all of them?

By the way, the Tesla privacy notice specifically says "no one but you would have knowledge of your activities, location, or history" but this article proves that's a lie.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#50

Post by giantg2 »

jimlongton wrote: post #31
mikece wrote: post #21

Wake me up when there's an EV that is just a car and not an always-connected surveillance device on wheels.

I work in the industry. It's not a "vehicle" any more - it's a "platform" to "engage" with customers, i.e. sell your data and lock features behind ridiculous monthly fees. That is now the mantra of the automotive industry. It really kills any enthusiasm I have for new cars.

Wishing I still had my 89 Caprice with physical buttons and switches. Parts were insanely cheap too (except the transmission, which I part of why I got rid of it).
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