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Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

perspective.finos.org

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Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#41

Post by texodus »

wongarsu wrote: post #36
MH15 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their demos performed fine for me on both desktop and mobile. Not sure what the issue is here, you're allowed to require some baseline performance level for something like this.

I had no performance problems, but right on the first demo each scrollbar is broken in it's own unique way. The main area with the sparkgrid has good horizontal and vertical scrollbars, but they are nearly invisible, being dark grey on slightly lighter dark grey, and only visible if you hover in the area they scroll. Also the vertical scroll bar doesn't take you to the very bottom. Then there's the top right area, wh…

It sounds like you have some browser/OS combination with aggressive scroll inertia enabled. A bug report on our GitHub with some of system details would be appreciated!

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#44

Post by NortySpock »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #43
johnzim wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Business Intelligence

What does that mean or imply?

People inside a company prefer to have financial and operational information to make informed operational decisions or projections.

Sometimes that data is stored in a variety of places (excel files, a smattering of disconnected databases, sometimes enriching the data with more data pulled from an API...).

Extracting that data to a common location (historically called a data warehouse) tends to be the work of a data pipeline, and the tool used to join, display, filter, dynamically aggregate, and visualize the data has been historically categorized as a "Business Intelligence" tool. Normally these BI tools provide data caching and allow temporary integration of multiple data sources.

The intent is to make it easy for business users to explore, analyze, visualize, share, and present datasets or results.

The biggest examples off the top of my head would be PowerBI, Tableau, and Apache Superset, but "data reporting tool" is a competitive market with many entrants.

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#45

Post by CyberDildonics »

NortySpock wrote: post #44
CyberDildonics wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean or imply?

People inside a company prefer to have financial and operational information to make informed operational decisions or projections. Sometimes that data is stored in a variety of places (excel files, a smattering of disconnected databases, sometimes enriching the data with more data pulled from an API...). Extracting that data to a common location (historically called a data warehouse) tends to be the work of a data p…

Sounds like essentially consolidating data in a database and visualizing it. Is there a difference between a database and a "data warehouse"?

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#46

Post by [deleted] »

dsmmcken wrote: post #24
egeozcan wrote: post #19

These aren't accessible at all. Did you try using the components with a screen reader, with just a keyboard and in high contrast modes? They look amazing but I'm a bit puzzled to why in 2023, a11y would not be a priority. Even this landing page itself isn't keyboard friendly. Some patterns to help you get started with ARIA: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/ Designing for a11y: https://www.w3.org/WAI/tips/desi…

Menu aside, what is a a screen reader supposed to do with a table changing at 100 msg/s?

[deleted]

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#47

Post by egeozcan »

supermatt wrote: post #23
egeozcan wrote: post #19

These aren't accessible at all. Did you try using the components with a screen reader, with just a keyboard and in high contrast modes? They look amazing but I'm a bit puzzled to why in 2023, a11y would not be a priority. Even this landing page itself isn't keyboard friendly. Some patterns to help you get started with ARIA: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/ Designing for a11y: https://www.w3.org/WAI/tips/desi…

Ironically your website doesn't meet the first criterion of the WAI design tips you linked (the nav links): https://www.w3.org/WAI/tips/designing/#provide-sufficient-co... No doubt I have poor a11y on my own projects - but if you are going to launch into critique of the landing page, at least do it from a position of authority :) TBH, I am not sure how a charting lib could effectively be accessible to any great exten…

If we are going to go this way: You previously commented that something doesn't work on Firefox, do all your project superior browser support? That doesn't make sense does it? What does my website which I updated 6 years ago (and created more than a decade ago) have anything to do with the validity of my comment? It just has a contrast issue (let me fix that BTW [edit: done]), a criteria that was set way later than I built that site. Also this is a component library aimed at businesses, not a personal website that I'm commenting about. Please stop trying to poison the well (going as far as hunting a11y issues on my personal site) and argue on merits.

I do it from a position of support, which I had the chance of developing by observing the users of the apps I created, and I made a giant software suit (more than 1000 views) pass an accessibility audit in my current company.

This is not just a charting library, see the examples down the page. Also, see: https://www.highcharts.com/blog/tutorials/best-chart-accessi...

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#48

Post by egeozcan »

troymc wrote: post #22
egeozcan wrote: post #19

These aren't accessible at all. Did you try using the components with a screen reader, with just a keyboard and in high contrast modes? They look amazing but I'm a bit puzzled to why in 2023, a11y would not be a priority. Even this landing page itself isn't keyboard friendly. Some patterns to help you get started with ARIA: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/ Designing for a11y: https://www.w3.org/WAI/tips/desi…

It's an open source project. You could create an issue on their GitHub repo, or better yet, create a PR and reference this existing issue: https://github.com/finos/perspective/issues/2133

I just commented about something I found lacking, it's not a hostile comment, and suggested improvements to the authors who seem to be hanging out here. I think if they have interest, they can add these as an issue, or choose not to.

To the downvoters: Do you really think I should open issues for every critic I place to open source projects here and otherwise not mention anything? I also love and contribute to open-source but this feels like too demanding.

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#49

Post by egeozcan »

texodus wrote: post #25
egeozcan wrote: post #19

These aren't accessible at all. Did you try using the components with a screen reader, with just a keyboard and in high contrast modes? They look amazing but I'm a bit puzzled to why in 2023, a11y would not be a priority. Even this landing page itself isn't keyboard friendly. Some patterns to help you get started with ARIA: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/ Designing for a11y: https://www.w3.org/WAI/tips/desi…

Not sure what specifically you are looking at - the data grid element e.g. is a well-formed, native HTML ` `, as recommended by the w3 [1] and renders fine AFAICT with the screen readers in Safari and Chrome (the browsers I have installed). A specific report on the GitHub for issues you find would be much appreciated! [1]( https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/table/examples/tabl... )

I was looking at the datagrid. I can't use the menus with the keyboard. I can't select columns. I can't see the currently focused element. My screen reader does not inform me of the menus, nor can I interact with them. Inputs have outline: none. Labels are not connected to the inputs.

In this example: https://perspective.finos.org/block/?example=superstore

I can't use the tree with the keyboard. From the patterns page I linked, you can see an implementation example for an accessible tree element.

I mean, I can continue. I'm not saying this to devalue your work, and I wish I had the time to go in depth and analyze all the components and give you more feedback, but I don't. So I humbly suggest you do a bit research about the topic and improve the product some.

Perhaps my original comment sounded too dismissive and therefore got many negative feedback, but I'm sincerely concerned. I wanted to hint at this as this is a tool that may be used by businesses and some people cannot do their job because of inaccessible tooling.

I do like what you are doing and the components do look cool - nothing to take away from that. Please take my comment as constructive as you can take it to be because I was trying to go for that, and perhaps my frustration in the last few years with this topic made me also whine a little bit :)

Re: Perspective: Open Source WebAssembly-Powered BI

#50

Post by egeozcan »

dsmmcken wrote: post #24
egeozcan wrote: post #19

These aren't accessible at all. Did you try using the components with a screen reader, with just a keyboard and in high contrast modes? They look amazing but I'm a bit puzzled to why in 2023, a11y would not be a priority. Even this landing page itself isn't keyboard friendly. Some patterns to help you get started with ARIA: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/ Designing for a11y: https://www.w3.org/WAI/tips/desi…

Menu aside, what is a a screen reader supposed to do with a table changing at 100 msg/s?

What are your eyes going to do with such a table? People pause right? So it would be nice to have some help to navigate. aria-sort in that example would help a lot, also some menus usable with a keyboard, and not disabling outlines.
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