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WWE Agrees to Merge with UFC

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Re: WWE Agrees to Merge with UFC

#41
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been a wrestling fan for as long as I can remember. It is irritating to be in the middle of a show when someone walks in and feels the need to inform me that it is fake. They don't do that when I am watching a movie or television show. They don't even do it in other venues where it is a show such as monster truck jams. They only do it with wrestling (ok sometimes a moon landing documentary too).

Isn't that because wrestling producers have tried to maintain the illusion that it's "real?" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe

Without a doubt. This is the cause of the stream of people who feel the need to point out it's fake. They aren't "in on the joke" yet, or "don't get the joke", so of course they won't hesitate to point out the obvious, and it usually goes over for fans about as well as someone who feels compelled to explain a joke told by someone else does...

Not a fan myself but I long ago wrapped my head around the Kayfabe and why it's silly to point out it's fake. Its just another sub type of "soap opera", like comic books, daytime soaps and telenovelas ...

Re: WWE Agrees to Merge with UFC

#42

If I were a UFC fan then I would be concerned about the integrity of UFC, given the pure entertainment and narrative focus that an organisation like WWE has. There will be moments where WWE execs or simply WWE practices and processes will realise that a certain UFC outcome will be much better entertainment. The question is whether or not everyone will forever have the integrity to ignore that as an option and if the…

Despite the similarities, the WWE and UFC are very distinct brands in the eyes of their fans.

In talking to fans that I know, WWE fans don't want the wresting to become more real. Nobody watching WWE is under the impression that being thrown onto a table is something that would happen in the normal course of a sporting competition. Making it more like "real" wrestling would largely defeat the parts that make the WWE fu

UFC fans, on the other hand, are coming to the sport because it's real. Fans that only watch the UFC are often very sensitive about a comparison to the WWE, because they value the fact that it is "real" competition and not scripted.

Re: WWE Agrees to Merge with UFC

#43
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been a wrestling fan for as long as I can remember. It is irritating to be in the middle of a show when someone walks in and feels the need to inform me that it is fake. They don't do that when I am watching a movie or television show. They don't even do it in other venues where it is a show such as monster truck jams. They only do it with wrestling (ok sometimes a moon landing documentary too).

Isn't that because wrestling producers have tried to maintain the illusion that it's "real?" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe

No.

McMahon admitted publicly that wrestling was fake in 1989 to avoid taxes.

https://www.thesportster.com/wwe-vince-mcmahon-admitted-wres...

Re: WWE Agrees to Merge with UFC

#44
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been a wrestling fan for as long as I can remember. It is irritating to be in the middle of a show when someone walks in and feels the need to inform me that it is fake. They don't do that when I am watching a movie or television show. They don't even do it in other venues where it is a show such as monster truck jams. They only do it with wrestling (ok sometimes a moon landing documentary too).

I’ve loved wrestling ever since I was a kid as well. I thought it was real until my dad pointed out that the a first person introduced always lost. That’s shattered my innocence but I started enjoying it more as I grew older because I could enjoy it as a joke/performance. I watched it when it was called the WWF and stopped watching it just before it got renamed to the WWE so I’m less familiar with all the newer wrest…

I haven't watched pro wrestling since I was a kid. I happened to be at a hotel across the street from a show. The talent and crew were at the same hotel. I was at the bar after the show ended. Everybody was so nice. I was a little mystified about what was happening, but I finally put it together.

Talent was very patient with fans, let pretty much everyone take pictures. Staff cared about fans, asking about their favorite part or listening to the odd complaint. Compared to say a kitchen crew getting off work and unwinding, the WWE folks were surprisingly wholesome. Everyone seemed nice and down to earth.

Re: WWE Agrees to Merge with UFC

#45

> UFC champion and superstar Conor McGregor lauded news of the pending deal Sunday evening. “Incredible. What a powerhouse!” he said in one tweet, following up with another tweet displaying an image of him brandishing UFC and WWE championship belts. I would not be happy about this if I was a UFC fighter/WWE wrestler, since less competition will mean less compensation. Where's the anti-trust busters when you need them…

That’s not how anti trust works…

Besides, what you are describing is not a “monopoly” it would be a “monopsony” even if the same people would be going from WWE to UFC.

Re: WWE Agrees to Merge with UFC

#46
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been a wrestling fan for as long as I can remember. It is irritating to be in the middle of a show when someone walks in and feels the need to inform me that it is fake. They don't do that when I am watching a movie or television show. They don't even do it in other venues where it is a show such as monster truck jams. They only do it with wrestling (ok sometimes a moon landing documentary too).

Isn't that because wrestling producers have tried to maintain the illusion that it's "real?" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe

My wife and I are performing magicians and there is a surprising amount of overlap in the history of the two performance arts.

Wrestling came from circus and sideshow. Stage magic has also had a large presence there, historically. Both art forms have a history of keeping their "methods" secret.

It reminds me of the first Borat movie, where Sascha Baron Cohen - at the time relatively unknown outside of the UK - stayed in character during the promotion of the movie. People didn't know if this character was for real or if it was an actor playing a part. It was part of the "art" (I know it sounds weird to call Borat "art", I don't want to get into a pedantic argument about definitions ... let's just say that magic, film, pro wrestling ... all theatre).

Ethically, it's an interesting grey area and I think that each has different reasons for being protective of what going on behind the scenes. Every magician has learned the hard way that audiences usually react to finding out how a trick is done with disappointment and that's the real reason that methods are kept guarded. The line for me is that I will never pretend that what I am doing when in character is anything other than parlour tricks and illusions.

I think that pro wrestling and Kayfabe are similar. For a long time pro wrestling did want to protect the illusion. These days they are much more open about it being scripted and predetermined and, like magic, anyone that wants to learn how some of it is done can find out very easily online. But I think that they still don't want to advertise the techniques because, in their belief, it would ruin the suspension of disbelief.

Magic is actually the UNWILLING suspension of disbelief. Even if a trick is not framed as an intellectual puzzle, it takes an intelligent audience to experience the illusion. The person watching must have a clear understanding of what is possible vs what is not, and the magician needs to understand every possible explanation that might run through a typical rational human mind and work to preemptively disprove those explanations. It's a fun implied intellectual challenge.

I can find pro wrestling to be entertaining but I'm not a super-fan and so I don't know if the "unwilling suspension of disbelief" enters into the picture with Kayfabe at all .. but I can see how it can. If we were under the assumption that every move and stunt were without any risk then would it still be AS entertaining? The "moves" in pro wrestling do not eliminate risk but they definitely work to reduce it. And understanding the mechanics, like in magic, has the potential to break the illusion.

Re: WWE Agrees to Merge with UFC

#47
post #28

Ouch, top WWE guys about to be making $20/hour

WWE performers are already underpaid. They are non-unionized independent contractors who cover their own travel costs and get no medical benefits. Less than 10% of revenue is dedicated to talent in WWE, whereas it's around 40-50% for unionized sports. https://wrestletalk.com/news/comparison-wwe-stars-greatly-un... It's been reported there are performers who make more money streaming on Twitch than wrestling. https://…

How does that compare to movies? They are really actors and only a handful get the big paydays.

Re: WWE Agrees to Merge with UFC

#48
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UFC already shapes events around marketability over merit as much as they can get away with. Look how long it took for Charles and Islam to get their title shots. The difficulty Islam had getting fights with people ranked above him on the way. Beneil and Belal still aren't getting title shots. Meanwhile, Colby gets away with just sitting out a year between title shot losses with fights against washed opponents sa…

> wants to sell drama, not sports poor people around the world have little fight clubs all the time, and the result is "knuckle heads" with broken teeth and unable to work. This show business has big production value, good lighting with excellent cameras, and yes, stories that people can latch on to.. hint- fight fans are often not very smart.

you have no idea what you're talking about and your comment is just patronising. MMA is a highly technical sport that demands elite levels of athleticism and sporting intelligence. fight fans are also already a highly diverse group from all around the world and that group is continually growing in size and diversity

Re: WWE Agrees to Merge with UFC

#49

So Joe Rogan may become a WWE commentator? I find that hilarious as he isn't a wrestling fan. "Back in 2014, Joe Rogan caught heat from pro wrestling fans after making fun of wrestling when comparing it to MMA. Rogan noted that MMA was real, while wrestling "was some weird, f**ing jerk-off thing that strange guys do when they sit in front of the TV and pretend that they don't know it's fake." Rogan later said he was…

[flagged]

Re: WWE Agrees to Merge with UFC

#50
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been a wrestling fan for as long as I can remember. It is irritating to be in the middle of a show when someone walks in and feels the need to inform me that it is fake. They don't do that when I am watching a movie or television show. They don't even do it in other venues where it is a show such as monster truck jams. They only do it with wrestling (ok sometimes a moon landing documentary too).

I think it would be better if people would say that it is scripted as it is certainly a very physical activity requiring quite a bit of athleticism even if the hits may not be as hard as if they were "real". In fact I would compare wrestling to what stuntmen do. Scripted but very real in most ways.

> Scripted but very real in most ways.

Different era, but back in the 90s, guys like Ric Flair or Mick Foley were almost superhuman in terms of stamina or the bumps they were able to take and still continue.

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