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Framework Laptop 16

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Re: Framework Laptop 16

#41

Post by nicolaslem »

dagw wrote: post #23
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I buy a computer with Win 11 then I can claim €259 back as long as I wrote it and install Linux? Isn't that how things worked before with Windows-tax automatically applied to all retail computers in major chain stores? That clearly won't work, as one could get free computers ... but what is the situation in getting reimbursements of Windows-tax?

So if I buy a computer with Win 11 then I can claim €259 back Anybody else remember Windows Refund Day? Some OEMs actually did offer a refund of around $30-50, which was the cost of an OEM license at the time. Although many court cases around the world have since then ruled that you don't have a right to claim a refund for unused OEM licenses.

Yes, I got my Windows license refunded years ago. AFAIK it was not simply getting a refund for something unused, but rather the fact that the hardware and the software were two distinct products that were bundled together without the consumer having a say.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#42

Post by vetinari »

GuB-42 wrote: post #36
vetinari wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is legal, there's ECJ ruling that software can be resold. It cannot be a breach of contract, if that contract article preventing it would be unlawful. Microsoft of course knows it, they are silent about the issue, preferring fear and doubt, just like you demonstrated.

These cheap keys are usually from MSDN subscribers. MSDN subscribers can generate an unlimited number of keys at no cost, but they are for use by the subscriber only. Selling these keys is an abuse of the program. There is no resale here and you don't really get a license, you get a key.

The "respectable" resellers do keep paperwork where given license comes from. Just because it is legal to sell them, doesn't mean you cannot be audited what exactly are you selling (once you attract the attention of powerful people).

So while some might come from MSDN subscribers, they often come from unused enterprise ones. The MSDN sellers are creating a big risk to themselves.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#43

Post by Aachen »

notRobot wrote: post #22
WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #14

Alas, it's got a 16:9 screen with its infamous ugly chin :-( I'd like a chinless 16:10 or 3:2 goodness (or 4:3), even if it was at a hefty markup. UPD: it's a 16:10 display, but the chin is still ugly.

You're wrong. It's a 16:10 screen. CEO: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35280523

Ugh. After over a decade of work, everything was finally adapted to or made for 16:9, now they're going after hipster ratios? Not a deal breaker but a bummer. Interesting that phones are going the other way, so now we can enjoy letterboxes on both platforms and not be able to reach the notification drawer. What was so wrong with 16:9 that we needed another competing standard that's just slightly off...

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#44

Post by Terretta »

cue_the_strings wrote: post #30
diffeomorphism wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://frame.work/ > now available with AMD Ryzen 7040 Still only preorder, but you can buy it with AMD now.

WOW! I think I'm going to pre-order one, trackpoint be damned! My wife is a bit suspicious of these laptops, let's see how this one fares. I just need to check if it'll work with my Thinkpad Thunderbolt 3 dock (or something similar, I can buy another dock) to output to 2x 4K (actually 3840x2560, so bigger than 4K) monitors. I can currently both power my Thinkpad, and connect all the peripherals, with 1 USB-C cable. I…

It does work with 2 x 4K TB3 docks, and you only need a single cable with USB-C charging and monitors you can daisy chain.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#45

Post by [deleted] »

dijit wrote: post #7
reisse wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder, do they sell retail licence or re-sell OEM licence at retail price? Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone really buys Windows at retail prices. Enterprise (subscription) and OEM costs are much lower, and for personal use you can buy OEM keys off eBay or AliExpress for a few bucks.

License costs are weird. The opaqueness of Windows licensing for "pro" devices makes us assume that there are heavy discounts, which massively depends on the manufacturer- framework could not be at a size that gives them preferential pricing (even if we assume that licensing is cheaper for other companies). I can say that it is more ordinary for end users to get discounts rather than OEMs, unless there is a lot of ne…

[deleted]

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#46

Post by jojobas »

Arch-TK wrote: post #17
dgrabla wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years using the trackpoint gave me carpal tunnel. Try not to use it exclusively.

How many years exactly? I am at almost 9 years of use and I have not felt the slightest hint of any problem (for reference I have in the past suffered from carpal tunnel related issues so I know what it feels like).

25 years, no issues. Maybe with sensitivity way down you do start pressing too much on it.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#48

Post by GuB-42 »

richthegeek wrote: post #28
GuB-42 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not legal, but the advantage is that you don't have to deal with shady software like that pirate KMS server. Even though it is a breach of contract because it is not how these licences are supposed to be used, it is still recognized as genuine by Microsoft, so you get all the updates, etc... You may get your license revoked it the seller get caught and as a result, you may need to get a new one. As an individua…

If the breach of contract is by the seller, then how does that result in illegality on the part of the buyer?

I don't think it is illegal on the part of the buyer, who would be a victim in this situation.

But just like buying counterfeit goods, it is not clear to me, I mean if you buy your key from AliExpress, isn't it like importing counterfeits from China? That's something one should ask a lawyer. Anyways, these keys can be revoked any moment (and it has happened to me, with an Office key). If I had a business, I would avoid them for that reason alone.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#49

Post by detrites »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #14

Alas, it's got a 16:9 screen with its infamous ugly chin :-( I'd like a chinless 16:10 or 3:2 goodness (or 4:3), even if it was at a hefty markup. UPD: it's a 16:10 display, but the chin is still ugly.

Isn't the point of these that you can modularly customise everything? Or does that not include the screen?

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#50

Post by GuB-42 »

vetinari wrote: post #42
GuB-42 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These cheap keys are usually from MSDN subscribers. MSDN subscribers can generate an unlimited number of keys at no cost, but they are for use by the subscriber only. Selling these keys is an abuse of the program. There is no resale here and you don't really get a license, you get a key.

The "respectable" resellers do keep paperwork where given license comes from. Just because it is legal to sell them, doesn't mean you cannot be audited what exactly are you selling (once you attract the attention of powerful people). So while some might come from MSDN subscribers, they often come from unused enterprise ones. The MSDN sellers are creating a big risk to themselves.

Now, real question, how do you distinguish between "respectable" resellers and MSDN sellers?
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