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You can't tell people anything (2004)

habitatchronicles.com

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Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#41

Post by droopyEyelids »

sammalloy wrote: post #35
jongjong wrote: post #26

This article resonates with me. I think it may also explain why some very smart people are not appreciated; they say things which are far too nuanced for most people to understand; others often won't understand the depth of the argument being made. Most people assume that because everyone is at a similar rank and salary range within a company (or in the industry), they are all operating at the same level and communic…

> I think it may also explain why some very smart people are not appreciated; they say things which are far too nuanced for most people to understand; others often won't understand the depth of the argument being made. Smart people are often wrong; this has little to do with intelligence. The problem is that most people lack vision and can’t see beyond their narrow reality tunnels. It takes extraordinary minds (not n…

funny... I wonder if your comment is an example of the principle we're discussing in action

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#42

Post by hinkley »

eat_veggies wrote: post #14

This is the anarchist theory of the unity of means and ends: you can't tell people anything, including what a better society looks like (nor can you impose it on anyone). You have to try to build and live that society in the present in order to even "get it" yourself. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anarchopac-means-and...

I have some opinions about therapy being the art of asking people questions in order to trick them into telling themselves things that nobody else can tell them.

I've had more than a couple coworkers over the years who pull me into random decisions because they think I ask good questions. Part of me would rather be known for having good answers, but it's better than being discounted, and practically it may end up being more effective.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#43

Post by sammalloy »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #41
sammalloy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it may also explain why some very smart people are not appreciated; they say things which are far too nuanced for most people to understand; others often won't understand the depth of the argument being made. Smart people are often wrong; this has little to do with intelligence. The problem is that most people lack vision and can’t see beyond their narrow reality tunnels. It takes extraordinary minds (not n…

funny... I wonder if your comment is an example of the principle we're discussing in action

"High-IQ populations are more patient and more risk averse than low-IQ populations".

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01651...

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#44

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

The article axiom is an extension of the famous John Watson[1] quote : "Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Hard Battle"

Which naturally extends to "You don't know", and I believe, the equivalent of this 2004 article. Now, as the article suggests, this is best shown - instead of explained.

A Neuroscientist was interviewed in a podcast [2] and illustrated this point with a story. He tells of a time when he dated long distance. Whenever he called his gf, she would ask him to call back and do facetime instead. At first, he thought it was cute, but eventually this quirk started eating at him, making him irritated. Finally, he built the nerve to ask. Why do you always want to do facetime ?

She explained that whenever he calls, she literally couldn't picture him in her head. Apparently she had a rare and poorly research condition[3], where the affected person cannot mentally draw a picture of the interlocutor (caller). So for the gf, resorting to facetime was the only thing that she could do, in order to picture of him.

You can't tell people anything = You just don't know. One of the same. Egotistic vs Humble. Take your pick.

[1] https://checkyourfact.com/2019/08/15/fact-check-plato-hard-b... [2] econtalk.org [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#45

Post by wwweston »

jackpirate wrote: post #11
ozim wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me worst part is just like in article that I have to explain to people first and only then I can start.

One of the reasons I've intentionally decided not become independently wealthy is that I want to have to explain to other people why I'm doing things. Part of my work is "charity-ish", and by not being able to do things on my own, I'm forced me to improve my communication skills and involve other people in these charity activities. I think that ultimately improves the final outcome, even if the process is immensely m…

Accountability (including the light form of it represented it by explanation) is super useful in refining personal development.

And I'm starting to believe the reason power/status corrupts is that it removes it as an option for character development.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#46

Post by oidar »

joefigura wrote: post #39

This article really frustrated me the last time it was posted, but now I think I have a clear enough idea why to put it into words. You absolutely can tell people things! But to tell someone something, you need to do three things: - Establish enough shared context that they can understand you - Speak about something they actually care about (or convince them to care) - Use a format that works for what you're trying t…

So all this article is really trying to communicate is that you can't get people on board with your product/software without them seeing/using it first. It's the general idea behind the MVP strategy that ycombinator teaches.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#47

Post by tonymillion »

hinkley wrote: post #42
eat_veggies wrote: post #14

This is the anarchist theory of the unity of means and ends: you can't tell people anything, including what a better society looks like (nor can you impose it on anyone). You have to try to build and live that society in the present in order to even "get it" yourself. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anarchopac-means-and...

I have some opinions about therapy being the art of asking people questions in order to trick them into telling themselves things that nobody else can tell them. I've had more than a couple coworkers over the years who pull me into random decisions because they think I ask good questions. Part of me would rather be known for having good answers, but it's better than being discounted, and practically it may end up bei…

That’s exactly what therapy is - you’ll never get a “diagnosis” out of a good therapist. Especially in fields like CBT. The point being to make you think (cognitive) about your response/actions (behavioral).

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#48

Post by jeremyjh »

diego_moita wrote: post #7

This reminds me an edition of Byte Magazine from 1990 [1] with interviews of all big shots in the industry making forecasts for the next decade. No one foresaw the internet. At best they did expect things like "we'll have networks with bigger bandwith". But no one saw the economic and cultural boom ahead. [1] https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1990-09

> But no one saw the economic and cultural boom ahead.

Quite a lot of science fiction authors did indeed see this coming.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#49

Post by rq1 »

> “Why didn’t you tell me that?”

I got this impression on my own self while studying math in college.

I noticed it when I made the connection about the studied subject, wondering why didn’t the professor say it that way to begin with. Because everything made sense now…

After few likely moments I asked myself the question: was the last explanation really better or did I just happen to understand the thing at that particular moment?

Later on, you get the “better” explanation while practicing the art…

We’re usually not aware of the process of understanding itself.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#50

Post by peppermint_gum »

nerpderp82 wrote: post #38
peppermint_gum wrote: post #23

Or maybe, just maybe, Xanadu wasn't as great idea as he thinks.

Xanadu is basically the web.

It is nothing like the web. The web is unstructured, Xanadu isn't. The web supports all kinds of content, Xanadu is stricly textual. Xanadu documents are immutable. Xanadu is integrated with a payment system and everything is pay-per-view. Xanadu has been worked on for more than 50 years and there's still no useful demo.

I know HN has this weird custom to assume without evidence that all old failed technologies were superior (or at least equivalent) to their more successful competitors, but it isn't always that simple. Sometimes technologies fail because they aren't that great.

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