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Show HN: Great Books Homeschool beta program

greatbookshomeschool.com

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Re: Show HN: Great Books Homeschool beta program

#41

Post by yamtaddle »

Ninjinka wrote: post #37
antiviral wrote: post #28

Interesting idea! Anyone who likes the idea of a great books program should check out St. John's College in Annapolis MD and their curriculum: Suggested book curriculum by year: https://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/undergraduate/great-bo... All in one PDF: https://www.sjc.edu/application/files/4115/4810/0934/St_John... There's also the old Britannica Great books printed book set. You can just look at their book list…

There is also a set of study guides that go with the old Britannica Great Books set called "The Great Ideas Program"! Somewhat hard to find nowadays though.

Dr. Eliot (of Harvard Classics) also edited a 10-volume Children's Classics set, with (IIRC) a reading guide similar to the one included with the Harvard Classics.

Re: Show HN: Great Books Homeschool beta program

#42

Post by lolinder »

benatkin wrote: post #39
lolinder wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did reference your data, I just don't find it to mean what you think it means. It shows that plenty of people (68%) choose to homeschool at least in part because of "dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools". That those people are also worried about peer pressure doesn't make them intellectually incurious. For a bit more nuance, see this report [0]: > This exploratory study examines the academic o…

Hmm, so you did mention my data, but didn't acknowledge that I must at least be somewhat informed. I don't think fringe is a pejorative. --- Yes, finding issue with the schools is part of the response. However, complaining about the schools is not a great victory for those arguing for homeschooling. They would have to provide a superior alternative. And there isn't overwhelming evidence that either is better, because…

To the extent that your original comment related to OP's post at all, you were insinuating that intellectually curious homeschoolers don't exist. Your own data disproves that, as does the data I provided in my follow-up.

I'm sorry that you had the displeasure of interacting with badly-homeschooled people. I've had the same displeasure of interacting with badly-public-schooled people, so I sympathize. If I were you, though, I would look at the statistical outcomes before making sweeping generalizations about an entire class of family.

Re: Show HN: Great Books Homeschool beta program

#43

Post by benatkin »

lolinder wrote: post #42
benatkin wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, so you did mention my data, but didn't acknowledge that I must at least be somewhat informed. I don't think fringe is a pejorative. --- Yes, finding issue with the schools is part of the response. However, complaining about the schools is not a great victory for those arguing for homeschooling. They would have to provide a superior alternative. And there isn't overwhelming evidence that either is better, because…

To the extent that your original comment related to OP's post at all, you were insinuating that intellectually curious homeschoolers don't exist. Your own data disproves that, as does the data I provided in my follow-up. I'm sorry that you had the displeasure of interacting with badly-homeschooled people. I've had the same displeasure of interacting with badly-public-schooled people, so I sympathize. If I were you, t…

> To the extent that your original comment related to OP's post at all, you were insinuating that intellectually curious homeschoolers don't exist. Your own data disproves that, as does the data I provided in my follow-up.

No I wasn't insinuating that intellectually curious homeschoolers don't exist.

I suggested that those in it for that reason aren't the most common and wondered where OP found people who were homeschooling out of lifestyle design and not protectiveness. Protectiveness is the most common reason. They didn't have an answer for me apparently, but I was genuinely hoping for one. I in fact know some homeschool for lifestyle design. I'm very curious about those who traveled or helped their children get their 10,000 hours in something like writing or playing a musical instrument (hell, even programming).

I'm pretty sure mine was among the better homeschooled people, at least out of those homeschooled out of protectiveness (as the original aim, the original reason for homeschooling often gets lost in the noise). The truth is that there is something missing even with the best homeschooled people.

Re: Show HN: Great Books Homeschool beta program

#44

Post by syzarian »

I have a question about home schooling in general. I'm a teacher with 20+ years of mathematics teaching experience at a community college. I don't know how to teach physics, chemistry, literature, reading, grammar, biology, etc. I especially don't know how to teach such topics to children. I don't know how to spot a learning disability except in an extreme case or to know if a student likely needs special education.

What makes parents with no specialized training think they can do better than the public school system?

My sister homeschooled all 8 of her kids from kindergarten through high school and it shows. It especially shows among the younger kids. Three of the younger kids clearly needed special help and had learning disabilities but her pride prevented her from getting them tested or even acknowledging the possibility that she was wholly incapable of adequately teaching them.

What is it about teaching that makes people with no training think they can do better than trained professionals? Do such people think they can be a police officer without training? a nurse or doctor without training?

I don't intend this to be confrontational. I'm curious about the thought process. I know there are cases where a parent can be better than what is provided by the public school system but I think far more parents are homeschooling who shouldn't be. I assume you are the exception and your efforts at homeschooling are justified.

Re: Show HN: Great Books Homeschool beta program

#45

Post by jkurnia »

rpmisms wrote: post #38

Phenomenal! Good books are critical, and were formative to me. Add Life of Fred for math and you're golden.

We actually do include Life of Fred as an optional supplement for elementary grades and an alternative core curriculum for high school. My seven-year-old loves it!

Re: Show HN: Great Books Homeschool beta program

#46

Post by benatkin »

syzarian wrote: post #44

I have a question about home schooling in general. I'm a teacher with 20+ years of mathematics teaching experience at a community college. I don't know how to teach physics, chemistry, literature, reading, grammar, biology, etc. I especially don't know how to teach such topics to children. I don't know how to spot a learning disability except in an extreme case or to know if a student likely needs special education.…

Part of it is the statistics. I don't fault people for deciding to homeschool at this point as long as they make sure other needs besides education are addressed, because the data are there and it doesn't show conclusively that homeschooling is worse, though it doesn't show it's better either. If it was much worse on average, that would show. Also a common pitfall is homeschooling only out of protectiveness. That alone isn't a very good reason to homeschool - at least not before other options including going to another school or perhaps even moving are exhausted. Protectiveness can be the start of researching about homeschooling but people should have more reasons homeschooling is likely to work well for them other than just that it's safer before actually starting to homeschool IMO.

Re: Show HN: Great Books Homeschool beta program

#47

Post by jkurnia »

yamtaddle wrote: post #29
jkurnia wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good to know. Right now the only way to view sample units is to create a free trial account.

Yeah, I did a lot of looking at these kinds of things during the Pandemic Year (didn't everyone?) and the single nicest thing to see, as far as evaluating them, was a kind of "here's what the material for a week in grade X looks like", or a sample unit if they're more unit-oriented. It's little enough that you're not giving away anything very useful on its own, but at least gives visitors a concrete idea of what they…

This is really helpful. I'll see if I can add something like this to the landing or about pages.

Re: Show HN: Great Books Homeschool beta program

#48

Post by AnimalMuppet »

syzarian wrote: post #44

I have a question about home schooling in general. I'm a teacher with 20+ years of mathematics teaching experience at a community college. I don't know how to teach physics, chemistry, literature, reading, grammar, biology, etc. I especially don't know how to teach such topics to children. I don't know how to spot a learning disability except in an extreme case or to know if a student likely needs special education.…

First: If you need help, get help. If you can't do it, stop trying to do it.

Second: There are communities (homeschool co-ops and such) that can help.

Third, though: Do not underestimate yourself. You know a lot of physics for a third-grader. You can teach that, even if you have to read the textbook right beside the student. (You may not be able to by high school, though.) And you have a great advantage. One of the key things in teaching is classroom size. The difference between a classroom of 30 and an classroom of 4 is massive.

Re: Show HN: Great Books Homeschool beta program

#49

Post by syzarian »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #48
syzarian wrote: post #44

I have a question about home schooling in general. I'm a teacher with 20+ years of mathematics teaching experience at a community college. I don't know how to teach physics, chemistry, literature, reading, grammar, biology, etc. I especially don't know how to teach such topics to children. I don't know how to spot a learning disability except in an extreme case or to know if a student likely needs special education.…

First: If you need help, get help. If you can't do it, stop trying to do it. Second: There are communities (homeschool co-ops and such) that can help. Third, though: Do not underestimate yourself. You know a lot of physics for a third-grader. You can teach that, even if you have to read the textbook right beside the student. (You may not be able to by high school, though.) And you have a great advantage. One of the k…

I do not know how to teach physics to a 10th grade student. I don’t know the subject well enough to explain it. I don’t know it well enough to come up with insightful examples. I especially don’t know chemistry, biology, literature, and other topics well enough. It would be hubris to think that I and a bunch of other equally ignorant people can do a better job than trained professionals.

The help I need is provided by the public education system. The help is in sending my kids to public school.

Re: Show HN: Great Books Homeschool beta program

#50

Post by yamtaddle »

jkurnia wrote: post #47
yamtaddle wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I did a lot of looking at these kinds of things during the Pandemic Year (didn't everyone?) and the single nicest thing to see, as far as evaluating them, was a kind of "here's what the material for a week in grade X looks like", or a sample unit if they're more unit-oriented. It's little enough that you're not giving away anything very useful on its own, but at least gives visitors a concrete idea of what they…

This is really helpful. I'll see if I can add something like this to the landing or about pages.

I'd stress adding a sample for each grade, if possible. It makes it easier for your prospective buyers/subscribers to imagine what starting this program might look like, since most will be looking, initially, at a single grade or a few grades, not the program as a whole, and 6th grade, say, can be a whole lot different from 2nd grade. Avoid making them try to guess how the form and content for a lesson for a grade they're not (currently) interested in will look for a grade they are interested in.

Super bonus points if you can record a couple of the lessons being delivered and post them on Youtube or whatever—the more you can convince prospects that they can use this and have it actually work, the better, I'd expect, and videos can help fill in gaps in imagination or confidence in turning written materials into a real lesson. Kinda like how sometimes a YouTube video of a board game with complex rules being played can make one more certain about how to run it, than reading the rules a couple times.

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