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I would suggest that when the fundamental difference is whether you materially support atrocities and war crimes or not then there should be no possible venue for civil and professional interaction.
Linux maintainer rejects patches from sanctioned Russian Baikal Electronics
41–50 of 88 posts
Re: Linux maintainer rejects patches from sanctioned Russian Baikal Electronics
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
> code and science should be separated from politics I think almost no one agrees that it should be completely separate; there should be some distance, yes, but all these things do exist in the same reality and that can't always just be ignored. Should Linux also accept North-Korean patches for their ICBMs in mainline? Probably not. They can't prevent Linux from being used in them, but they also have no obligation to…
All I'm hearing is NATO military good guys, everyone else evil. Somehow I should be agreeable to US weapons teams mainlining patches say for whatever weapon killed that random.man and his children during the fall of Kabul. But not a nasty North Koreans?
Clearly, you are not understanding the problem then
Re: Linux maintainer rejects patches from sanctioned Russian Baikal Electronics
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes.
It's not that simple. A single person is not required to agree with what their country is doing, and probably can do little. Unless something can be attached to their name, like a tweet saying "all ukrainians shall die" or spreading modern russian ideology, it's wrong to punish. It's prejudice, it's discrimination, no different than not letting somebody into a restaurant just because of their race. Were all germans g…
> Were all germans guilty because of Hitler?
If a German, during WW2, or heck even WW1, submitted an article to a British journal on improvements to industrial equipment, and did so on BASF letterhead and with a correspondence address to BASF's headquarters, companies in the allied nations would be right to think twice before implementing those improvements, or even making comments on those improvements.
Re: Linux maintainer rejects patches from sanctioned Russian Baikal Electronics
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
> code and science should be separated from politics I think almost no one agrees that it should be completely separate; there should be some distance, yes, but all these things do exist in the same reality and that can't always just be ignored. Should Linux also accept North-Korean patches for their ICBMs in mainline? Probably not. They can't prevent Linux from being used in them, but they also have no obligation to…
All I'm hearing is NATO military good guys, everyone else evil. Somehow I should be agreeable to US weapons teams mainlining patches say for whatever weapon killed that random.man and his children during the fall of Kabul. But not a nasty North Koreans?
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Re: Linux maintainer rejects patches from sanctioned Russian Baikal Electronics
#45While I agree that code and science should be separated from politics, isn't this the point of the sanction? AFAIK the Linux Foundation is a US non-profit, and many core kernel developers, such as Linus Torvalds and Greg KH reside in the United States.
> code and science should be separated from politics I think almost no one agrees that it should be completely separate; there should be some distance, yes, but all these things do exist in the same reality and that can't always just be ignored. Should Linux also accept North-Korean patches for their ICBMs in mainline? Probably not. They can't prevent Linux from being used in them, but they also have no obligation to…
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Re: Linux maintainer rejects patches from sanctioned Russian Baikal Electronics
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Ignoring trust issues (NK inserting a backdoor) For another option, is it possible that patching a legitimate bug could open up a line of attack in an otherwise unrelated piece of code that the bug was somehow blocking? If it is, even legitimate, verified bug fixes, or even bug reports, from non-trusted sources, should be carefully vetted.
They did end up banning all of the University of Minnesota over trust issues. Everything should be carefully vetted, sure, but it's always possible something gets missed; a good backdoor is indistinguishable from a bug, and those definitely end up getting merged. Any merge is a "risk", so to speak. It's a matter of risk management: a patch from Greg Kroah-Hartman is very unlikely to contain an intentional backdoor an…
Worse, you can be quite sure that a patch or series of patches from "Kim Jong-un" will introduce a bug (or rather a well hidden corner case) leading to a backdoor. It can be assumed that there's a hidden incentive behind the patches.
Re: Linux maintainer rejects patches from sanctioned Russian Baikal Electronics
#47In case you didn't know that, Baikal processors are made specifically for russian military and have no civilian use.
It's worth to add that Baikal Electronics is sanctioned by USA, EU, UK and banned to use ARM. So "feeling uncomfortable accepting the patch" is a nice euphemism in that case.
Re: Linux maintainer rejects patches from sanctioned Russian Baikal Electronics
#48[flagged]
I would suggest that when the fundamental difference is whether you materially support atrocities and war crimes or not then there should be no possible venue for civil and professional interaction.
Essentially all humans materially support atrocities and war crimes, and historically this has always been true. That certainly includes everyone paying taxes in any major country.
We have little choice about that, but we could also materially support efforts to end armed conflict.
Re: Linux maintainer rejects patches from sanctioned Russian Baikal Electronics
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
All I'm hearing is NATO military good guys, everyone else evil. Somehow I should be agreeable to US weapons teams mainlining patches say for whatever weapon killed that random.man and his children during the fall of Kabul. But not a nasty North Koreans?
Clearly, you are not understanding the problem then
And you think this is a problem with political roots, right?
Re: Linux maintainer rejects patches from sanctioned Russian Baikal Electronics
#50> We don't feel comfortable accepting patches from or relating to hardware produced by your organization. Is the discomfort based on technical, or legal, or moral/political reasoning?
The company in question seems only to manufacture for the Russian Armed Forces, not for any civilian products.