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Long-Term Cannabis Use, Cognitive Decline, and the Hippocampus

psychologytoday.com

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Re: Long-Term Cannabis Use, Cognitive Decline, and the Hippocampus

#41

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

troydavis wrote: post #24

Here's the actual paper. Long-term Cannabis Users Show Lower Cognitive Reserves and Smaller Hippocampal Volume in Midlife: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9426660/ From the abstract: > We tested the hypotheses that long-term cannabis use is associated with cognitive deficits and smaller hippocampal volume in midlife, which is important because midlife cognitive deficits and smaller hippocampal volume are…

This associative effect is interesting in that there’s not a causal proven relationship albeit many common alternatives have been ruled out. It could very well be the kind of people who partake in weed were already predisposed to losing iq and developing dementia risk factors for some other abstract reason, and we can use weed smoking as a signal of something else being wrong.

Fascinating stuff tho

Re: Long-Term Cannabis Use, Cognitive Decline, and the Hippocampus

#42

Post by m0llusk »

It might be interesting to give this more context. Does five points of IQ loss in later life actually change outcomes? And what about the rest? In my experience older cannabis users tend to be more centered, pleasant, easygoing, and are better at retaining their social support networks over long periods. My cannabis use has made my life tolerable, so if there really is a loss in IQ then that might not be such a bad price to pay. Comparing my work history with others my age it really isn't clear that my long term regular cannabis use has made any negative change that isn't visible in others.

It seems like these studies are mostly about confirming bias. People who are judgemental and don't like cannabis can confirm that cannabis users are bad and slow and degraded and so on. But we are still here we need to share the world somehow so it might make sense to think about balance and trade offs rather than only ever keeping the emphasis on no, no, no, you might degrade some of your capacities.

Re: Long-Term Cannabis Use, Cognitive Decline, and the Hippocampus

#43

Post by scythe »

AlanYx wrote: post #2

What's most interesting about this article IMHO is that these results were found with "long-term cannabis users" defined as those who use "typically 1-4 times weekly". That seems like relatively casual use.

If you look at the description of the cohorts you'll find that most of the people classified as long-term cannabis users were using cannabis quite a bit more frequently than that (median ~300 days per year). It just happens that the analysis here split people into boolean subgroups rather than trying to quantify a dose-response effect (as the primary outcome; dose-response effects are claimed but not emphasized).

I would be most interested in seeing a correlation with sleep disturbances. Some cannabis users claim that they smoke weed to help with sleep disturbances; critics argue to the contrary that persistent cannabis use may cause sleep disturbances. Chronic sleep disturbances are known to correlate with a variety of negative outcomes, and the use of sleep-inducing drugs is known to correlate with a variety of problems as well (including the great boogeyman, all-cause mortality).

From my own perspective, I stopped smoking weed last year, but I don't think the overall change has been very noticeable. The use of means can distort perceptions when distributions are not symmetric. Notably, my sleep habits aren't great right now, though I'm working on it.

Re: Long-Term Cannabis Use, Cognitive Decline, and the Hippocampus

#44

Post by f6v »

varispeed wrote: post #4
AlanYx wrote: post #2

What's most interesting about this article IMHO is that these results were found with "long-term cannabis users" defined as those who use "typically 1-4 times weekly". That seems like relatively casual use.

Author obviously has a conflict of interest. He fails to acknowledge that correlation is not causation and that these studies fail to take into account other variables that could influence the outcomes.

> correlation is not causation

True. But then there’s something that makes you stupid and makes you use cannabis at the same time. This is as bad as just cannabis making you stupid.

Re: Long-Term Cannabis Use, Cognitive Decline, and the Hippocampus

#45

Post by whalesalad »

edgyquant wrote: post #29
jamal-kumar wrote: post #15

This is pretty important kind of research. Tons of people are using this stuff medically and while it's obviously a better solution for pain management than long-term use of things that can kill you if they're suddenly unavailable, like opiates, we should still be highly aware of mitigating whatever harms could come from the widely used alternatives. It would also be more interesting to see harm in aspects of things…

Lots of people use it recreationally with the belief it’s not bad for you at all. This kind of research will help to show them that’s not the case.

Everything in moderation :)

Re: Long-Term Cannabis Use, Cognitive Decline, and the Hippocampus

#46

Post by alyandon »

fallingknife wrote: post #7

I smoked weed constantly in college, and when I stopped, it was like a fog lifted. Its danger was comically exaggerated in the anti-drug propaganda they force fed to kids in the US for so long that a lot of people have a reactionary tendency to assume it's harmless, but they will soon be proven wrong. Still has nothing on America's number 1 hard drug, alcohol, though.

Your experience matches mine almost exactly.

Re: Long-Term Cannabis Use, Cognitive Decline, and the Hippocampus

#47

Post by somehnguy »

edgyquant wrote: post #29
jamal-kumar wrote: post #15

This is pretty important kind of research. Tons of people are using this stuff medically and while it's obviously a better solution for pain management than long-term use of things that can kill you if they're suddenly unavailable, like opiates, we should still be highly aware of mitigating whatever harms could come from the widely used alternatives. It would also be more interesting to see harm in aspects of things…

Lots of people use it recreationally with the belief it’s not bad for you at all. This kind of research will help to show them that’s not the case.

I don't know if it will really make any difference at all. Many people consume alcohol regularly and we already know that it's bad for you. I think most people are willing to make tradeoffs, especially when in moderation the negatives aren't really that big.

Re: Long-Term Cannabis Use, Cognitive Decline, and the Hippocampus

#48

Post by legitster »

kilgnad wrote: post #40
legitster wrote: post #31

I think there's a ton of self deception when it comes to marijuana use. I mean, look with your own eyes and you can clearly see lots of long-term negative effects on users. The studies are only proving what we all really already know. The same thing was true for cigarettes - even before all of the major studies came out lots of people were able to put together the obvious connection between smoking and lung problems.

Before legalization in many states, even on HN even the suggestion that cannabis was unhealthy could get you voted down. People refused to believe it. Now that it's legal peoples' objectives have shifted and it's now ok to talk about it. It's a literal example of the stupidity in human psychology. People don't use logic to make conclusions about the world, they use logic to justify their conclusions so they can fulfi…

*Very hard to find a young person. But you find enough people after 10-15 years of using who will tell you they have noticed some effects.

I think it's important to point out that marijuana is certainly less dangerous than alcohol and cigarettes. But it's weird how people try to argue that there shouldn't be any sort of moderation when it comes to weed. Like, even alcoholics won't argue that they shouldn't be drunk all of the time.

Re: Long-Term Cannabis Use, Cognitive Decline, and the Hippocampus

#49

Post by varispeed »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #18
varispeed wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author obviously has a conflict of interest. He fails to acknowledge that correlation is not causation and that these studies fail to take into account other variables that could influence the outcomes.

I don’t think you’re using conflict of interest correctly. You’re saying here the author has secondary motives, such as being sponsored by an anti-weed org or something, which they would have to disclose in their own section (as per basic academic standards). You might want to instead if you want to criticize the research say the authors clearly have a personal agenda or bias.

It is common for people working with addiction to demonise drugs, so that they can have stream of scared patients lined up.

Re: Long-Term Cannabis Use, Cognitive Decline, and the Hippocampus

#50

Post by devwastaken »

troydavis wrote: post #24

Here's the actual paper. Long-term Cannabis Users Show Lower Cognitive Reserves and Smaller Hippocampal Volume in Midlife: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9426660/ From the abstract: > We tested the hypotheses that long-term cannabis use is associated with cognitive deficits and smaller hippocampal volume in midlife, which is important because midlife cognitive deficits and smaller hippocampal volume are…

IQ statistics is pseudo science. Therefore we can dismiss the study out of hand. Soft sciences need to be able to prove their underlying methodologies, and have so far largely failed to do so. They rely on shifting around numbers and cherry picking data to get specific outcomes.
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