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Use GNU Emacs

www2.lib.uchicago.edu

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Re: Use GNU Emacs

#41

Post by xlii »

kqr wrote: post #3

The Ingebrigtsen quote is meaningful. One should think of "using Emacs" not like "using Vim" but like "using the JVM." Emacs is a powerful platform for building hackable, command-and-ui driven applications. You may not like the text editor that ships with a default Emacs install, but you don't have to use it! There are others (e.g. evil.) There are also other applications. Some of my favourites are - calc (desktop RP…

I recommend calc, I fell in love with RPN and can’t use normal calculators anymore.

Never heard about sunrise commander though.

Re: Use GNU Emacs

#42

Post by thom »

adastra22 wrote: post #23
worldsayshi wrote: post #13

I used Emacs for a while and now I use Intellij. Now I don't understand the appeal of customizing the editor to such degree. I'm not that unique. I just want stuff that works. Give me the same setup as everyone else so that when issues arise everyone will push for them to get fixed and everyone can help each other.

I use Visual Studio Code now for pretty much this exact reason. The only configuration I need to do is to install the right language server extensions for the code I develop, but even this is mostly handled by the "It looks like you're writing Rust code. Do you want to install the extension to handle this file type?" dialog that pops up on first use. Everything is auto-updated, settings synchronized across devices, a…

You also get the benefit of everyone else’s hard work with Emacs. One of the differences is that it’s such an established ecosystem, that instead of individual extensions just getting better, with Emacs they’ve yielded shared abstractions that make _new_ extensions trivial and much more consistent than with VSCode (which is nevertheless still an excellent editor these days).

I also don’t understand why people think spending time on the tools they use to do work is wasted. You either believe software creates value or you don’t. If your time is so limited, eliminating toil seems essential.

Re: Use GNU Emacs

#43

Post by Y_Y »

worldsayshi wrote: post #13

I used Emacs for a while and now I use Intellij. Now I don't understand the appeal of customizing the editor to such degree. I'm not that unique. I just want stuff that works. Give me the same setup as everyone else so that when issues arise everyone will push for them to get fixed and everyone can help each other.

I use Spacemacs for this reason. Building up from scratch might be most satisfying, but I don't have the time or knowledge for that. Vanilla Emacs is not so easy to find your way around IMHO, and I find the discoverability and batteries-includedness removes a lot of friction. I guess I'm trying to start with everything and pare down, rather than the other way.

Re: Use GNU Emacs

#44

Post by abudabi123 »

Kwpolska wrote: post #27
worldsayshi wrote: post #13

I used Emacs for a while and now I use Intellij. Now I don't understand the appeal of customizing the editor to such degree. I'm not that unique. I just want stuff that works. Give me the same setup as everyone else so that when issues arise everyone will push for them to get fixed and everyone can help each other.

IntelliJ is very configurable, and there are some settings and plugins I couldn't live without (such as the Vim plugin). I've also been through a Vim-as-main-editor phase, but I'm now using Rider (a JetBrains IDE) as my main editor, VSCode as my secondary editor (for things where opening Rider would be impractical), and NeoVim for some one-off things and Git commit messages. Rider/VSCode with Vim plugins get you the…

    (And I don't see the appeal of Emacs at all.)
Use the source and the Common Lisp image repl. Do the math, A.I. or quantum.

Re: Use GNU Emacs

#45

Post by sn41 »

OK. Here's a usecase where I found emacs to be wonderful.

I had to email the grades, together with totals, and class averages to many students in a class.

I tried fiddling with Excel and Google spreadsheets and scripted mail merges. Then I realized I could do it emacs.

Export the gradesheet into csv, and convert to an org table.

Carefully record a macro where you copy paste the name of the student the mark columns into a mail window (I used gnus), copy paste them into a calc window, do the calculation, copy the result onto the mail, and email the student. Go to the org buffer, and go to the next line. This took about 12 minutes to get right.

Keep pressing f4. Sending individual mails to 125 students took Maybe this is overkill, and I am sure excel wizards can do it in a few minutes. Nevertheless, I was surprised - if you spend time carefully recording the macro, the Emacs ecosystem (org+gnus+keyboard macros) is insanely powerful.

Re: Use GNU Emacs

#46

Post by mlatu »

xlii wrote: post #37

I’ve been using Emacs for ~15 years right now, but I don’t recommend it for the last few. I love it, it’s great, and as many others, I tried to move out of it but there was something I couldn’t do I KNEW I could get in Emacs and it frustrated me so much I kept going back. But I don’t think it brings a lot of added value. There are many very very powerful IDEs and editors which offer out of the box great UX and featur…

i get that, though i would rather compare it with chopsticks than vinyl records.

you use emacs to do stuff, you dont just listen to/watch it do its thing.

chopsticks might not seem like a good metaphor at first glance, as they are much more simple, but they are highly compatible with a lot of tasks and can be utilized in many ways that a fork, spoon, spork or colander just wouldnt handle as well. to my mind, the simple thing hidden in emacs' complexity is that it is a closeted lisp machine

Re: Use GNU Emacs

#47

Post by mlatu »

worldsayshi wrote: post #13

I used Emacs for a while and now I use Intellij. Now I don't understand the appeal of customizing the editor to such degree. I'm not that unique. I just want stuff that works. Give me the same setup as everyone else so that when issues arise everyone will push for them to get fixed and everyone can help each other.

but if only the manufacturer is allowed to service your tools, do you actually own them?

i think tools should be able to conform to its users' hands, i dont see that in intellij that much...

Re: Use GNU Emacs

#48

Post by uhtred »

xlii wrote: post #37

I’ve been using Emacs for ~15 years right now, but I don’t recommend it for the last few. I love it, it’s great, and as many others, I tried to move out of it but there was something I couldn’t do I KNEW I could get in Emacs and it frustrated me so much I kept going back. But I don’t think it brings a lot of added value. There are many very very powerful IDEs and editors which offer out of the box great UX and featur…

I love the vinyl or paper books comparison.

I have a strange nostalgia for the old Unix days that I was too young— perhaps not even alive yet— to experience the first time around. It's what draws me to learning and using things like vim, Perl, awk, sed, etc. Those tools feel arcane and mystical.

Re: Use GNU Emacs

#49

Post by simiones »

kqr wrote: post #3

The Ingebrigtsen quote is meaningful. One should think of "using Emacs" not like "using Vim" but like "using the JVM." Emacs is a powerful platform for building hackable, command-and-ui driven applications. You may not like the text editor that ships with a default Emacs install, but you don't have to use it! There are others (e.g. evil.) There are also other applications. Some of my favourites are - calc (desktop RP…

Even though I've been using emacs as my main IDE for ~3 years (when I switched from Java in IntelliJ to Go), and using it for non-IDE tasks for ~5 years, I wouldn't recommend anyone builds a command-and-ui-driven application in Emacs if they have any expectation to use it outside of the Emacs ecosystem.

For example, I love magit and find it much nicer than many Git GUIs, but I would still recommend something like Git Kraken (or just the GIT CLI) to someone who is not already using emacs for other things.

Emacs is extremely idiosyncratic, and the barrier to entry of using an Emacs-based app is nowhere near as small as using a JVM-based app (and even that is too much for most uses).

Re: Use GNU Emacs

#50

Post by vineyardmike »

I started using emacs on and off in the last few years. I’m probably a younger developer than most emacs users, but I’ve always been drawn to the customization and extensibility of it - it seems a generation ago was rich with ways to build unique and customized tools (eg emacs, hyper card). I’ve always liked the idea of living out of the terminal- it basically acts the same locally and over SSH so it’s perfect for working in a highly mobile or portable way. But I’ve slowly realized that it’s basically what a browser is now - just far less extensible and customizable but with far more “modern” and easy to use tools. I wish the browser was the rich and hackable sandbox the next generation of computer users have been missing.
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