Uncle Sam to block Adobe absorption of Figma over monopoly fears • Hacker News Board

Re: Uncle Sam to block Adobe absorption of Figma over monopoly fears

#41

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 12:30 PM UTC

gameman144 wrote: post #28

oldgradstudent wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is very much the system working as-designed The system was designed to criminalize any attempt to monopolize, not just block the transaction. The Sherman antitrust act was quite clear about it: > Sec. 2. Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign n…

Adobe isn't (ostensibly) trying to monopolize though, they're trying to buy another company. Regulators step in and say "That would be a monopoly", to which everyone involved says "Darn, well we can't continue trying to merge then, since that would be a felony". This all seems totally fine and legal and working as designed.

The law says that "attempt to monopolize" is a crime, so even trying this was illegal.

Re: Uncle Sam to block Adobe absorption of Figma over monopoly fears

#42

Post by SecretDreams » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 12:30 PM UTC

oldgradstudent wrote: post #30

gameman144 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adobe isn't (ostensibly) trying to monopolize though, they're trying to buy another company. Regulators step in and say "That would be a monopoly", to which everyone involved says "Darn, well we can't continue trying to merge then, since that would be a felony". This all seems totally fine and legal and working as designed.

Everyone suspects they're buying Figma for $20B not because they think it will bring that amount of money, but that it will maintains Adobe's pricing power. Is that turns out to be true, then it seems a violation of the act.

Yes, Adobe is trying to buy their competition into submission to protect their SAAS model.

I don't think their moat is defensible indefinitely for the cost they're asking, but this type of thing would buy them some time.

It is telling that they can't do something better with the 20bil, though. Not much innovation left to squeeze out and there's no chance Figma generates this type of revenue for years (if ever?).

Re: Uncle Sam to block Adobe absorption of Figma over monopoly fears

#43

Post by meany » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 8:03 PM UTC

oldgradstudent wrote: post #29

meany wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that Adobe and Figma executives should be criminally charged with an attempt to monopolize the market? Edit: I looked up the justice department’s stance. From: https://www.justice.gov/atr/antitrust-laws-and-you The Sherman Antitrust Act This Act outlaws all contracts, combinations, and conspiracies that unreasonably restrain interstate and foreign trade. This includes agreements among competitors t…

Yes. Or at least join the queue. It it turns out, as almost everyone suspects, that Adobe is buying Figma not because Figma will be a source of revenue, but mainly to prevent competition, then it's a clear violation of the Sherman antitrust act and should be punished accordingly. Before then in the front of the queue should be companies like Uber whose entire business plan was dumping to destroy the existing taxi ind…

I think the bar for criminal prosecution is much higher than than "everyone suspects." It needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt, which I think is a harder case to make. You'd need documented evidence that that was the goal. Otherwise, I think it would be pretty easy for lawyers to create some level of doubt. I doubt the justice department could win that in a court of law.

Re: Uncle Sam to block Adobe absorption of Figma over monopoly fears

#44

Post by oldgradstudent » Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 11:56 PM UTC

meany wrote: post #43

oldgradstudent wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Or at least join the queue. It it turns out, as almost everyone suspects, that Adobe is buying Figma not because Figma will be a source of revenue, but mainly to prevent competition, then it's a clear violation of the Sherman antitrust act and should be punished accordingly. Before then in the front of the queue should be companies like Uber whose entire business plan was dumping to destroy the existing taxi ind…

I think the bar for criminal prosecution is much higher than than "everyone suspects." It needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt, which I think is a harder case to make. You'd need documented evidence that that was the goal. Otherwise, I think it would be pretty easy for lawyers to create some level of doubt. I doubt the justice department could win that in a court of law.

The main obstacle is the will to enforce the law.

In the Silicon Valley wage suppression cartel, there were tons of evidence, including evidence that indicated intent, and awareness of the illegality.

Eric Schmidt, Google CEO, even wrote stuff like:

> I would prefer that Omid do it verbally since I don’t want to create a paper trail over which we can be sued later?

All they got was a measly fine.

Obama DOJ had no will to criminally prosecute even with ample evidence.