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DOJ Preps Antitrust Suit to Block Adobe’s $20B Figma Deal

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Re: DOJ Preps Antitrust Suit to Block Adobe’s $20B Figma Deal

#41

Post by bruceb »

andsoitis wrote: post #14
bruceb wrote: post #5

I have read more than once Adobe might secretly be ok with this. Price agreed to before valuations fully cratered. I am sure Musk wished the DOJ could have helped him out as well.

> I am sure Musk wished the DOJ could have helped him out as well. In what way? None of his existing businesses operate in even remotely the same market as Twitter.

Security was floated as a reason: https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-elon-musk-twitter-deal...

I don't think was real possibility but was at least floated even it was to give something for partizans to chew on.

Re: DOJ Preps Antitrust Suit to Block Adobe’s $20B Figma Deal

#42

Post by poof131 »

j_crick wrote: post #25
obblekk wrote: post #8

In case you ever find yourself with as much leverage as Figma seemingly had… always negotiate a break up fee to compensate for exactly this. T-Mobile famously got a $4B breakup fee after DOJ blocked ATT from acquiring them. That $4B was used to buy more spectrum and overhaul the brand, leading to huge growth to the point that T-Mobile is now a big 3 player (it used to be big 2 only). If Figma wrangles $2-3B cash out…

> If Figma wrangles $2-3B cash out of this, they could probably take down the entire adobe ecosystem Do you think that just $2-3B would be enough to push for developing alternatives to at least Photoshop and Illustrator and Lightroom and After Effects and successfully going after their markets? During what timeframe? Doesn’t feel like it tbh.

Disagree. Figma should be competing with Adobe on the open market and winning. Seeing them displace CC in the enterprise in ways Sketch never did. $2-3B would be an insane propellent to them. This deal is great for Adobe, Figma, Greylock, and others, but not consumers or the majority of Figma users in my opinion. Glad to see the antitrust resurgence in this country. The rollup play is going away. Adobe's leaders are going to have to get more creative to compete :)

Re: DOJ Preps Antitrust Suit to Block Adobe’s $20B Figma Deal

#43

Post by Espressosaurus »

cmdialog wrote: post #33
j_crick wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Figma wrangles $2-3B cash out of this, they could probably take down the entire adobe ecosystem Do you think that just $2-3B would be enough to push for developing alternatives to at least Photoshop and Illustrator and Lightroom and After Effects and successfully going after their markets? During what timeframe? Doesn’t feel like it tbh.

A lot of designers are already abandoning Adobe because they are tired of their garbage. Many of my peers have turned to Serif Affinity apps as Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign replacements and they do an incredible job. Nobody cares about Adobe on iPads, most artists are reaching for Procreate. Most of the issues involve sharing of files since Adobe has such a large share and their file types are proprietary. There ar…

Agreed. I'm not a professional, but I'm willing to spend money like a pro and I have gone out of my way to avoid Adobe products due to their business practices. So far the main place that is hurting me is Lightroom. None of the equivalents I've tried are as good (still need to try Capture One one of these days, except they are also starting to be...not great with their business).

Affinity Photo is a pretty good Photoshop replacement, but I'm still waiting for them to release a Lightroom replacement.

Lord knows someone needs to start eating Adobe's lunch. They've had a stranglehold for too long.

Re: DOJ Preps Antitrust Suit to Block Adobe’s $20B Figma Deal

#44

Post by eastbound »

neosat wrote: post #15

Adobe pays a high valuation in an inflated market for Figma, to continue showing growth that has mostly stalled. Also helps them cross-sell their other products once they get into smaller companies where Figma has a strong foothold. Market Tanks, valuations tank (to reasonable levels or perhaps still slightly inflated levels but not as crazy as before) Generative AI brings a new threat (and new potential acquisition…

Why don’t such companies just create a venture fund with 49% ownership to buy all the small actors? They could even call it “funding the competition so that there is some”.

Re: DOJ Preps Antitrust Suit to Block Adobe’s $20B Figma Deal

#45

Post by croes »

twright wrote: post #11
wdb wrote: post #3

I don't agree on the Blizzard stuff but in this instance I agree with what the US government is doing. Adobe is a stronger hold on the design tools market than any other company and Figma was good competition

What separates the two cases for you? Does it come down to there being more gaming companies compared to Microsoft than there are application-design companies compared to Adobe?

It's still PS vs Xbox, MS vs Sony, but Adobe vs ???

Re: DOJ Preps Antitrust Suit to Block Adobe’s $20B Figma Deal

#46

Post by devwastaken »

j_crick wrote: post #25
obblekk wrote: post #8

In case you ever find yourself with as much leverage as Figma seemingly had… always negotiate a break up fee to compensate for exactly this. T-Mobile famously got a $4B breakup fee after DOJ blocked ATT from acquiring them. That $4B was used to buy more spectrum and overhaul the brand, leading to huge growth to the point that T-Mobile is now a big 3 player (it used to be big 2 only). If Figma wrangles $2-3B cash out…

> If Figma wrangles $2-3B cash out of this, they could probably take down the entire adobe ecosystem Do you think that just $2-3B would be enough to push for developing alternatives to at least Photoshop and Illustrator and Lightroom and After Effects and successfully going after their markets? During what timeframe? Doesn’t feel like it tbh.

Yes, if we didn't have software patents. All of these products can be replaced by a team in a year or less. Overwhelmingly the features are basic image manipulation. One guy made photopea, an effective Photoshop replacement in javascript.

Adobe has intellectual property, not innovation.

Re: DOJ Preps Antitrust Suit to Block Adobe’s $20B Figma Deal

#47

Post by ttoinou »

devwastaken wrote: post #46
j_crick wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Figma wrangles $2-3B cash out of this, they could probably take down the entire adobe ecosystem Do you think that just $2-3B would be enough to push for developing alternatives to at least Photoshop and Illustrator and Lightroom and After Effects and successfully going after their markets? During what timeframe? Doesn’t feel like it tbh.

Yes, if we didn't have software patents. All of these products can be replaced by a team in a year or less. Overwhelmingly the features are basic image manipulation. One guy made photopea, an effective Photoshop replacement in javascript. Adobe has intellectual property, not innovation.

So following your first idea, the guy behind Photopea should be sued in justice by Adobe for IP infringement, no ?

Re: DOJ Preps Antitrust Suit to Block Adobe’s $20B Figma Deal

#48

Post by jonny_eh »

croes wrote: post #45
twright wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What separates the two cases for you? Does it come down to there being more gaming companies compared to Microsoft than there are application-design companies compared to Adobe?

It's still PS vs Xbox, MS vs Sony, but Adobe vs ???

Not to mention Nintendo and Valve/Steam in the mix. Of all the issues that the video game industry has at the moment, a lack of platform competition isn't the issue.

Re: DOJ Preps Antitrust Suit to Block Adobe’s $20B Figma Deal

#49

Post by _8j50 »

cmdialog wrote: post #33
j_crick wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Figma wrangles $2-3B cash out of this, they could probably take down the entire adobe ecosystem Do you think that just $2-3B would be enough to push for developing alternatives to at least Photoshop and Illustrator and Lightroom and After Effects and successfully going after their markets? During what timeframe? Doesn’t feel like it tbh.

A lot of designers are already abandoning Adobe because they are tired of their garbage. Many of my peers have turned to Serif Affinity apps as Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign replacements and they do an incredible job. Nobody cares about Adobe on iPads, most artists are reaching for Procreate. Most of the issues involve sharing of files since Adobe has such a large share and their file types are proprietary. There ar…

> Adobe has nothing good for web design

They acquired Macromedia dreamweaver back in the day and killed it. RIP to a fallen hero.

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