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Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#41

Post by SQueeeeeL »

flerchin wrote: post #19
barbazoo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be frustrating to see this problem approaching and not knowing what to do. I wonder if at some point the only way out is to radically change one's family's lifestyle. Maybe homeschooling, very limited technology at home, living in a community with like-minded people, something like that?

Let's find a solution that does not involve expanding the Amish model.

The Amish kinda slap, they didn't invent addictive social media, put a game show host in charge of nuclear weapons, or have a bunch of corporations change their icons to rainbow icons while still being shitty.

They literally realized 300 years ago that they should opt out of the nonsense America descended into

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#42

Post by [deleted] »

politician wrote: post #24
BulgarianIdiot wrote: post #8

The article promises evidence, but it starts by repeating the premise half a dozen times, then offering correlations and loose theories. If there was evidence in there, I missed it. Maybe there was. But even if there was this was a badly formatted article. Why can't people succinctly describe their thesis and then have a nice outline for the fine details on the proof? Is this not something we learn at uni, or even hi…

Ask ChatGPT to summarize the article for you?

[deleted]

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#43

Post by shagie »

warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

While the generations are a bit dated - https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-...

> Social media creates a world for Lucy where A) what everyone else is doing is very out in the open, B) most people present an inflated version of their own existence, and C) the people who chime in the most about their careers are usually those whose careers (or relationships) are going the best, while struggling people tend not to broadcast their situation. This leaves Lucy feeling, incorrectly, like everyone else is doing really well, only adding to her misery:

> (image)

> So that’s why Lucy is unhappy, or at the least, feeling a bit frustrated and inadequate. In fact, she’s probably started off her career perfectly well, but to her, it feels very disappointing.

> ...

> Ignore everyone else. Other people’s grass seeming greener is no new concept, but in today’s image crafting world, other people’s grass looks like a glorious meadow. The truth is that everyone else is just as indecisive, self-doubting, and frustrated as you are, and if you just do your thing, you’ll never have any reason to envy others.

---

Thus, the "set reasonable expectations" along with "realize that what is on social media is a constructed reality reflecting the masks people wear in that environment." The "what people see on Facebook" is almost as scripted as any romcom movie - just that most people realize that the movie is a constructed fabrication yet tend to expect that they can live day to day the same as what people project into the constructed reality of social media.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#44

Post by giantg2 »

warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

They wouldn't be out of the loop if enough other girls did the same thing. They you'd have your own group.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#45

Post by dmonitor »

barbazoo wrote: post #11
warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

It must be frustrating to see this problem approaching and not knowing what to do. I wonder if at some point the only way out is to radically change one's family's lifestyle. Maybe homeschooling, very limited technology at home, living in a community with like-minded people, something like that?

this model breaks down because you have to enter society eventually. transitioning from homeschooling to highschool junior year and then into a large university was very difficult in my personal experience.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#46

Post by anoonmoose »

api wrote: post #18
rco8786 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember the pro-cigarette media campaigning of the 90s and 00s?

I've been calling social media companies "the tobacco companies of the mind" for quite a while. The effects are most obvious with teens but I see this stuff as bad all around. Social media algorithms have really driven today's insane political polarization, and there's lots of examples of adults having their brains sucked out by social media rabbit holes. Here's one pile of examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCas…

conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists existed long before social media did.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#47

Post by kelseyfrog »

anoonmoose wrote: post #21
hn_version_0023 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://apnews.com/article/ce9e3e9c7595bae5034193112a75bb7e

That's about a '97 settlement of a '91 lawsuit...don't see how it is relevant to a discussion of "90s and 00s" media.

Parent is drawing a parallel. We collectively agreed that the tobacco industry played a role in the consequences of tobacco addiction by marketing to minors.

The parallel being drawn here is that social media platforms, being presented with the consequences of their products ie: teen mental health declines with use, are complicit in those consequences at some point in the value chain, either by marketing, product design, accessibility, etc. If the assumptions hold, then the conclusions are sound and valid.

There's two ways to disagree with this. Either the assumptions are not valid, or the argument is not sound.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#48

Post by warner25 »

largepeepee wrote: post #23

"It also creates a trap—a collective action problem—for girls and for parents. Each girl might be worse off quitting Instagram even though all girls would be better off if everyone quit." I like this part, it is quite clear quitting social media alone is probably even worse and self-isolating than not taking part. The solution would be to address it on a societal level, but that requires pretty strong societal/politi…

So this is the part that I've focused on too, and I don't think it's clear that it's worse, but it's clear that there are no good options; we're left with trying to identify the least worst option across a number of dimensions.

In college I chose to go to bed early and abstain from alcohol, which seems similar to this. It was definitely isolating. On the other hand, it ensured that my few friends were people who actually shared my (apparently strange) values. But I did it voluntarily. If someone's parents tried to make them go to bed early and restrict them from drinking in college, that seems like it could lead to a lot of resentment.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#49

Post by murat124 »

You gotta feed yourself the likes. And there's no end to it. Like, it never gets full.

It's like you're sending SYNs with the tweets and such, and need to be ACK'ed. As if just putting it out there for the sake of sharing was not enough. Though during Internet's early years with tons of personal sites and blogs, watching visitor counter as the owner of the site was like seeing all the ACKs. We were getting our kicks from watching that number go up. Now, social media's likes replaced that simple number with all bunch of numbers, and it is incredibly addictive. Internet is definitely connecting us people together, for better or worse, but it also amplifies some of our destructive emotions and urges. Interesting times.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#50

Post by 8f2ab37a-ed6c »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #33
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #9

I wonder if online dating tends to lead to similar impacts to mental health for some groups of people as social media does to teen girls. Just like in Haidt's examples, it's impersonal, phone-based, leading to constant social comparison, feelings of rejection, ostracism and ghosting. I wouldn't be shocked if a few years from now research came out showing that it has similar effects to adults, but they're just better…

Anecdotal, but dating apps sure helped crush the self-esteem of my sister. She still gets on them occasionally, because there's no alternative now. Guys in the post-#metoo era just won't approach a girl at a bar the way they used to.

I don't think we need to go as far as to point fingers at MeToo for this. We have an entire generation of young adults who hit puberty after smartphones, social media and dating apps became standard. They might have never had to ask someone out in person, and going to a bar to meet someone would be the last place they think of.

https://www.statista.com/chart/20822/way-of-meeting-partner-...

To be fair I'm actually shocked by how high bars are on that chart, at least given my anecdotal experience.

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