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SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

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Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#41

Post by krapp »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #11
willk wrote: post #5

I think we really should be looking at the tax-exempt status of religious organizations have that subsidiaries that are doing their taxes and setting up shell companies to hide where money is coming/going.

Simpler : if churches get tax-exempt status, then they are bound to the state in receiving that status, and violate separation of church and state? I haven't been able to find where tax exempt status for churches is established, and I've looked, but not my area of expertise at all. What if the goverment were to just stop giving churches tax exempt status? (edit: clearer)

Its basis is that taxation is a form of coercion, and government having the ability to coerce or even persecute religious organizations through taxation would violate the separation of church and state.

I personally think the incestuous menage-a-trois between corporate interests, the Republican party and Conservative Christianity is a bigger threat to liberty, but whatever.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#42

Post by joshstrange »

My friends and I that meet weekly (on Sunday) for a potluck that has been going on for over a decade were joking about starting our own religion (turns out we meet a number of the IRS requirements already and the remaining things would be easy to create). Clearly the enforcement of corruption (which we would have no intention of doing) is next to zero and having a real "religion" is a joke so maybe we should go ahead and do it...

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#43

Post by bobthepanda »

crisdux wrote: post #27
jjtheblunt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simpler : if churches get tax-exempt status, then they are bound to the state in receiving that status, and violate separation of church and state? I haven't been able to find where tax exempt status for churches is established, and I've looked, but not my area of expertise at all. What if the goverment were to just stop giving churches tax exempt status? (edit: clearer)

The separation of church and state is not about preventing any kind of relationship between religious institutions and the government. Rather, it is about ensuring that the government does not establish an official state religion, and that it remains neutral towards different religious beliefs and practices.

I mean, you could just set up equal taxation rather than no taxation at all.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#44

Post by CosmicShadow »

ramesh31 wrote: post #19
anigbrowl wrote: post #2

- $5 million in fines, for - 22 years of willful reporting violations - using 13 shell companies - to conceal ownership of a $32 billion portfolio I'm sure they're gutted by this ~0.016% fine.

The SEC is, largely, a powerless bogeyman due to chronic underfunding and lack of staff. Another wonderful feature of corporate regulatory capture in the US.

But what kind of staff or funding does it take to say literally different words out of your mouth like, you are fined $5B instead of $5MM? I can do that for free, especially if they are already at the point where they are making the charge. Every fine should be devastating so that they either barely survive or die, and every other company shits themselves for life and we solve the problem.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#45

Post by usrusr »

Natsu wrote: post #15
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better to just get rid of the tax exempt status for religious organizations altogether. They can operate like any other non-profit and be subject to that set of rules, or they can be a regular corporation and be subject to a different set of rules. The religious exemption is a big regulatory gap that doesn't need to exist.

That exists so that the government can't just decide to tax one religion out of existence while favoring others.

As if governments were in the habit of arbitrarily handing out large scale tax exemptions. That idea might have been well-intended, but it's really a solution in search of a problem. And how would a religion be "taxed out of existence" anyways? Or the religion the belief or is the religion the org?

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#46

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

Natsu wrote: post #15
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better to just get rid of the tax exempt status for religious organizations altogether. They can operate like any other non-profit and be subject to that set of rules, or they can be a regular corporation and be subject to a different set of rules. The religious exemption is a big regulatory gap that doesn't need to exist.

That exists so that the government can't just decide to tax one religion out of existence while favoring others.

Seems preemptive. There is already freedom of religion. If one is singled out and taxed unfairly then they can sue (and probably win).

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#47

Post by FredPret »

nsxwolf wrote: post #33
ramesh31 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SEC is, largely, a powerless bogeyman due to chronic underfunding and lack of staff. Another wonderful feature of corporate regulatory capture in the US.

So you need more staff to write down a larger fine on a piece of paper?

How many bureaucrats does it take to type a zero on a fine?

In all seriousness, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist and I love the SEC.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#48

Post by mistrial9 »

anti-Church pitchforks come out pretty fast here? it shows that some people simply want to eliminate Church itself, and use bad news to propel that point of view.

why not address the actions themselves, specifically; plenty of crooks in the investment game, some of them use Church money it seems.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#49

Post by skyyler »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #17
henning wrote: post #13

Revoke the tax-exempt status of religious organizations that engage in political speech.

remove "that engage in political speech" even!

Yeah, it's weird to me that some churches are essentially companies that aren't taxed.

Re: SEC charges the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

#50

Post by boeingUH60 »

lvl102 wrote: post #37
willk wrote: post #5

I think we really should be looking at the tax-exempt status of religious organizations have that subsidiaries that are doing their taxes and setting up shell companies to hide where money is coming/going.

I would go one step further and say that donations to religious organizations should not be tax deductible. They are not charities in 99% of the cases.

(Not an American)...I don't see any need for donations (religious or non-religious) being tax-deductible. In my country, it's very simple: here's your income and here's your tax rate (no deductions). What you do with the rest is up to you.
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