Live data from Hacker News

City-Builder Taken Off Steam After Fan Goes Rogue

kotaku.com

41–50 of 132 posts

Re: City-Builder Taken Off Steam After Fan Goes Rogue

#41

It baffles me that there are no legal repercussions for abuse of DMCA / IP / copyright instruments. People who do this without grounds should be punished/fines for abusing the system proportionate to what they claim.

You can file for a declaratory judgment and ask for attorney's fees under the fee-shifting provision of the copyright act. Generally, most of the quasi-DMCA programs also observe the counter-notice process, which gives the plaintiff ten business days to file a lawsuit, but then cancels the informal copyright complaint if the time period ends without that lawsuit being filed.

In this case, sending a counter-notice (free), filing for a declaratory judgment and asking for an injunction to prevent additional malicious filings would probably be the most direct pathway to relief.

Filing bar complaints isn't likely to work all that well, because it doesn't really map to the typical things that state bar associations really look to pursue. The vast majority of bar complaints result in nothing, and most of the ones that are deemed valid result in mandatory CLE rather than more substantive penalties.

Re: City-Builder Taken Off Steam After Fan Goes Rogue

#42
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, there is. It's perjury. And the target of a false claim can sue the party who made the claim for damages and attorney's fees.

I'm not so sure. It's a fact that he was involved in the development of this new feature, and it's his opinion that he originated the idea. Whether he did or not is for a court to decide, but he's not committing perjury by believing this. Now if he knows he didn't originate the idea and has brought vexatious proceedings, then sure, this may be perjury, but we are some way off knowing this, and i don't think we'll be…

Ideas aren't copyrightable. If they're not using his code or art or actual copyrightable materials, then there is no copyright infringement.

Re: City-Builder Taken Off Steam After Fan Goes Rogue

#43
It sounds the fan has no basis for their claim, but due to their background they are able to craft professional claims. I guess the lesson is always expect someone try to screw you via legal pathway (if you read about history of any field this seems to be a quite recurring pattern - if you have a business, you better lawyer up sooner than later).

Re: City-Builder Taken Off Steam After Fan Goes Rogue

#44
post #33

This is awful. But it’s also why many “old media” producers and companies in the entertainment and music industry have careful policies around refusing to receive or acknowledge ideas and content from outside the organization. It’s much harder for some fan-writer to pursue spurious legal credit for some plot idea or script content when you maintain an official policy to bin unsolicited submissions and to never acknow…

These are apparently false DMCA letters. Attribution or payments aren’t really relevant. According to the article, the person filing the claims has no ownership of the copyright. Even if they were being ripped off (which it doesn’t seem like they are) that wouldn’t give them ownership of the copyright.

The person is claiming rights to a version of the game not yet released because they wrote a game guide about how to do it and the game creators agreed to credit him in the new IP. This has led to him filing the DMCA requests and initiating a claim against the new product. The DMCA requests appear to be retaliatory. That's my understanding from the minimal information provided in the article.

Note however we are getting one side of this story -- the developers. I have no idea what is going on and it is surprising how many times things swing around when both parties are heard (the Doom Eternal soundtrack issues come to mind)[0].

[0] https://medium.com/@mickgordon/my-full-statement-regarding-d...

Re: City-Builder Taken Off Steam After Fan Goes Rogue

#45

I don't think these developers have much of a grip on reality. They stated that Valve could suffer financial harm if the game stays off Steam. I don't think they realize how much money Valve makes.

I think they're talking about the bad precident it sets.

Re: City-Builder Taken Off Steam After Fan Goes Rogue

#46
post #21
post #2

DMCA is such an epically shitty law. Only worse is that other countries are happily copying the law too.

Lets remember that the DMCA is what allows providers like youtube to host content without being liable to the copyright infringement of its users. The takedown provision sucks, but its an essential law for the open internet to even exist.

Considering the open internet existed before DMCA did, I suspect “essential” is an exaggeration.

Re: City-Builder Taken Off Steam After Fan Goes Rogue

#47
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also needs to not be some "DMCA Lite" contractual mechanism like Youtube's shitty ContentID system. Why not? By my reading of the section you quoted, it stands independently from its parent sections; anyone who makes a legal claim of copyright infringement, or pursues action under the principle that such a claim exists, would seemingly be liable for damages if they're "knowingly materially misrepresenting" the f…

> anyone who makes a legal claim of copyright infringement The answer is right there, my emphasis added. YouTube’s internal mechanisms, a la ContentID, are not processes which are a part of the legal system. They’re corporate policies. It is worth noting that this distinction is irrelevant to this article, however. As this article says this was a DMCA claim. So any potential false claims in this case do carry this po…

> The answer is right there, my emphasis added. YouTube’s internal mechanisms, a la ContentID, are not processes which are a part of the legal system. They’re corporate policies.

No, that's not what I meant. I meant, "any claim that can be interpreted in a court of law as being equivalent to saying you intend to sue for copyright infringement and have a legal basis to do so."

In the same sense that a handshake contract is still a binding contract, a regular letter telling someone that you're aware they're violating your copyright — and which doesn't explicitly disclaim any interest in pursuing legal action — can still be interpreted as a threat of legal action; and therefore, if proven to be based on knowingly false claims, as injurious perjury.

To be clear, it's not YouTube making this claim; it's the IP owner making the claim, when they register the IP in the ContentID system. Such a registration is equivalent in the spirit of the law to notoriously claiming 1. you are the IP's true owner, and 2. that you do not license use of your IP for use by others without your prior consent; and that therefore 3. you have an interest in pursuing action against all future unlicensed use of your IP, whether that action is using the DMCA, within the framework of the legal system outside of the DMCA specifically, or through extralegal means.

By analogy, consider what sort of verbal claim of intent to commit a crime (e.g. selling illegal drugs) is necessary in a police sting to trigger an arrest. You don't need to actually have committed the crime (i.e. hand the undercover officer any drugs, or even prove you have any drugs); you merely need to make it clear that you are actively working to set up the conditions necessary to carry out the crime (i.e. to agree/negotiate a price for the drugs you may have.)

In this case, a judge would basically be looking for the point of "stated intent to commit perjury." Which happens as soon as the ContentID for the video is registered!

Re: City-Builder Taken Off Steam After Fan Goes Rogue

#49

I'm curious what the legal precedent on this. If intellectual property, concepts, lore, can be protected, does this person have a claim here even though they didn't write the code? Is there a statutory norm for percentages in cases like these? This has to be terrible for small dev shops to face, I'd imagine enough litigating and good projects just fold up shop unable to afford their own defense cost.

In general ideas are not copyrightable. Expression of ideas are copyrightable.

Anyone can sue you for whatever reason. The court can throw the case out but it’s a nuisance to you.

Re: City-Builder Taken Off Steam After Fan Goes Rogue

#50

Ironically, it seems that fan would fit perfectly as a bureaucrat in a Soviet Republic.

This is like a reboot of "Mazes and Monsters" [0] forty years later.

0. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084314/

1. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084314/mediaviewer/rm188310835...

Post reply on HN