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Amazon Announces RTO for Employees

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Re: Amazon Announces RTO for Employees

#41
I run a team that went remote with the COVID restrictions and have not gone back to the office.

I observed:

- Working from home is _different_, but we still have the same work throughput

- Communication is slower, but more considered

- Personal boundaries on DnD time are more closely held

- Needless communication was reduced

I wouldn't go back to an open-plan office for anything. Even when we were in the office, most communication was on Slack because everyone had their sound cancelling headphones on trying to control the intrusiveness of the environment.

Until these managers mandating that WFH ends show some actual evidence of the benefits of being in the office, i'm going to assume this is a manager's ego not doing very well without overlooking their team.

I'm sure if your job is a bit ... needless ... it feels even worse when you work from home. In the meantime, some of us have work to do.

Re: Amazon Announces RTO for Employees

#42
post #6

There are a lot of companies making remote work work for them, and for a lot of people's lifestyles it's a huge boon. My personal experience has been that WFH has lead to an absolute grinding halt in productivity that requires any form of collaboration. A lot of people will often not respond to Slack for several hours and any video conferencing is usually scheduled for later in the week, instead of in 20 minutes. I k…

Remote work, when done correctly can be amazing. Most employers I've been with the last 6 years have been remote first and my personal experience has been very positive. My team, even those not in the same timezone, had a pretty good overlap on working hours. Communication via Slack/Zoom/Meet was near instantaneous. We got together once or twice a year at an offsite.

I also think it depends on the type of work you do, your team, and personal discipline. Not everyone is suited for remote work. So I hate blanket statements of "WFH is the future" or "WFH is the worst thing ever."

Remote work requires trust from management, but also personal discipline from remote employees. Some absolutely abuse it. Some companies are just not setup for remote work. And some jobs, even if possible remotely, aren't well suited for it.

But yes I agree with your last point, guidance is necessary on how to work remotely.

Re: Amazon Announces RTO for Employees

#43

WFH makes it possible for some engineers (and managers) to not do any work and is often a case of "out of sight, out of mind". Without a strong way of gauging impact (a ton of hypergrowth startups and large companies are in this bucket), you can basically coast along doing minimal work. On the other hand, there are a ton of engineers who are hyper-productive when working remotely but because companies don't know how…

There will always be people who figure out how to coast in or out of the office. Companies aren't that great at identifying hyper-productive employees in any sense. Great team members and management do that all on their own without regards to location strategy.

Re: Amazon Announces RTO for Employees

#44
post #6

There are a lot of companies making remote work work for them, and for a lot of people's lifestyles it's a huge boon. My personal experience has been that WFH has lead to an absolute grinding halt in productivity that requires any form of collaboration. A lot of people will often not respond to Slack for several hours and any video conferencing is usually scheduled for later in the week, instead of in 20 minutes. I k…

Sounds like you experienced a particular company's flavor of WFH, which sounds mostly worse than all the ones I have.

I've also seen situations that start to go bad like you describe, but in some cases we were able to nudge it back. For example, someone tries to schedule a meeting for a week away, so you push for a quick ad hoc call in a few minutes instead. (Not that different than in-person, when someone says "let's schedule a meeting".)

I've also seen experiments in WFH communication and team-building that aren't done well. For example, starting Monday morning with a ineffective all-hands that, rather than getting people on the same page and energized, sucks the life out of any refreshed start of the workweek. (Again, similar to if you'd herded everyone in-person into a large physical room, for the same content and delivery, only in-person is poorer view and harder to hear.)

Also, in the worst situations I'm aware of, it wouldn't matter much whether the people were in-person. You might figure out more quickly that there's a problem, or where the problem is originating, but that's not been the hardest part.

What in-person is best at is humanizing/personalizing people and forming bonds easily, with all the little cues that we've known since the '80s aren't conveyed as well through computers, and still aren't. (Well, for many people; other people are less comfortable in some in-person contexts, for various reasons, and tend to be more comfortable and themselves in other modalities.)

There's also the occasional high-bandwidth highly-interactive collaborative design, but there's no reason most of that can't happen mostly WFH when your timezones overlap and you have good tools (e.g., effective shared whiteboarding/diagramming that's actually better than a physical whiteboard).

Personally, my ideal is WFH, but being in-town or an easy commute away, for occasional high-value in-person interaction. With in-person emphasis on humanizing/personalizing/bonding (but naturally; I've seen these done in well-intentioned but miserable ways that people just try to get through, and it can be counterproductive).

Re: Amazon Announces RTO for Employees

#45

WFH makes it possible for some engineers (and managers) to not do any work and is often a case of "out of sight, out of mind". Without a strong way of gauging impact (a ton of hypergrowth startups and large companies are in this bucket), you can basically coast along doing minimal work. On the other hand, there are a ton of engineers who are hyper-productive when working remotely but because companies don't know how…

I knew guys working from home who worked 10 hour weeks for years. Yeah, eventually they got laid off, but it was a mostly paid vacation for a long time. Not everyone is like that though.

Re: Amazon Announces RTO for Employees

#46

> Jassy said he and the S-team, a tight-knit group of senior executives from almost all areas of Amazon's business, decided at a meeting earlier this week that employees should be in the office "the majority of the time (at least three days per week)." Was the meeting in a physical office? Can we expect the policy to apply to them as well as the rest of the staff? You know, to make it easier to "ask ad-hoc questions…

Honestly, the type of execs having huddles like that likely don't need work/life balance because they're 100% corporate cult company men anyway.

Normal people, with normal life priorities and who find joy in many things outside the workplace seem to enjoy WFH. Their work doesn't define them.

This kind of sweeping policy change without consultation of the people it affects would be an immediate resignation from me.

Re: Amazon Announces RTO for Employees

#47
It’s incredible how many people here are ok with forcing people back into environment-destroying soul-crushing commutes so their co workers will be somewhat more productive and make the majority shareholders of their companies (which 99.9% of you aren’t, let’s me honest) a little more cash.

Re: Amazon Announces RTO for Employees

#48

I run a team that went remote with the COVID restrictions and have not gone back to the office. I observed: - Working from home is _different_, but we still have the same work throughput - Communication is slower, but more considered - Personal boundaries on DnD time are more closely held - Needless communication was reduced I wouldn't go back to an open-plan office for anything. Even when we were in the office, most…

I’m on a similar situation - managing a small team and got very similar perceptions.

If my company tries to enforce more than a couple days in office, I’m jumping somewhere else.

Re: Amazon Announces RTO for Employees

#49
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I would be surprised if the majority (all, really) of the S Team isn’t planning on coming in every day of the week

When you've got a private office, a couple executive assistants, a private driver, a company paid hotel if you need to stay late and a (possibly second) house close by it becomes a much easier thing to do. edit: And of course 24/7 nannies.

That seems inefficient. Just throw beds in a couple of conference rooms.

Re: Amazon Announces RTO for Employees

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute best way to not reach me is by cell phone call. If you’re not my wife or kids, use any of the text mediums, but I’m not picking up an unscheduled call (and if you’re not already in contacts, it won’t even ring).

Ya instead you should be at an office so I can just walk over and bug you face to face instead.

In-person people tend to at least see "oh s/he's super-focused on something, I should probably not interrupt them if it's not important"
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