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Earlier quoted context omitted.
I prefer having extra work done writing code (adding "?") than having to do extra work reading code. Exceptions are functionally invisible control flow; it isn't clear to the reader that a function may blow up if the exceptions are unhandled.
In Java functions declares Exceptions in its type signature, so it does all of that automatically. Then you get a compile error if you don't handle it in the function, or you need to declare the function throws it, so it is type safe. Note that people now consider that as a mistake, people prefer having Exceptions be hidden instead of explicit and requiring handling like that.
Correction: Some people. Java's checked and unchecked exception approach is quite nice if used judiciously. It certainly beats checking for error after every function call (default: mostly people ignore error codes) and you even get typed errors so you can trivially incorporate exception handling in the conceptual design as a first class design element.
I am frankly not sure how people get confused about "control flow" and exceptions. (In decades of Java programming the only thing that can still cause minor reading/writing nuisance are generic types and type erasure in over elaborate generic code.)
I can't get it why people would prefer to add "?" to everything instead of just having exceptions which automate that behavior. In the bad old days of C there were two kinds of programs: programs without correct error handling, and programs where half the loc are unhappy paths that do what exceptions do... with a huge amount of work. Today people are repeating the same mistakes of the past, putting a "?" on everythin…
Personally, I much prefer Rusts solution, being both more up front and at the same time more terse.
The metaphor is kinda stupid though, the "cavemen" in our scenario knows very well that exceptions exist.
I can't get it why people would prefer to add "?" to everything instead of just having exceptions which automate that behavior. In the bad old days of C there were two kinds of programs: programs without correct error handling, and programs where half the loc are unhappy paths that do what exceptions do... with a huge amount of work. Today people are repeating the same mistakes of the past, putting a "?" on everythin…
Fundamentally it is difficult to impossible to fix bugs without knowing what code caused it. Java-style exceptions give you a backtrace for free, which is a huge head start. With Rust you have to do a lot of manual plumbing with something like error_stack to get similar functionality, out-of-the-box Errs do NOT capture this.
Far more productive to work in an environment that does the right thing "for free" vs having to do it manually.
So in his opinion, choosing Rust is a premature optimization?
Author here - yeah, that's how I feel about it, at least for startups specifically.
Do you think you will need a major rewrite soon?
This is something I hear a lot from other founders. Spinup time of new engineers is like 6mo+, some devs who can churn out normal CRUD product work just fine in Rails or React ~never become productive with Rust, and hiring skilled Rust devs is just crazy hard (though maybe now that Blockchain/Solidity things have cooled there may be more supply).
(We were specifically looking for remote folks near EU time zones, maybe local in SF is harder?)
Question for HN, all things being equal (you are not more familiar with one language/framework) what language would you choose to build a startup in?
Question for HN, all things being equal (you are not more familiar with one language/framework) what language would you choose to build a startup in?
I can't get it why people would prefer to add "?" to everything instead of just having exceptions which automate that behavior. In the bad old days of C there were two kinds of programs: programs without correct error handling, and programs where half the loc are unhappy paths that do what exceptions do... with a huge amount of work. Today people are repeating the same mistakes of the past, putting a "?" on everythin…
Error union return values make a lot more sense, the rest is just syntax sugar details (and that's where opinions differ I guess).
If you are writing a typical business application use Python. (Fast development times, low performance)
Or if you want to be clever do a hybrid of both. Create Rust modules for your Python code.
This is just about selecting the right tool for the right job.