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EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

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Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#41

Post by SllX »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #36
ta1243 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three groups passed this law * The EU Commission (headed by commissioners appointed by the government of the members, 1 per member) * The EU council (makde up of the heads of government of the members, 1 vote per member) - so sort of in line with US senate as originally enacted (where the state government chooses the senators) * The EU parliament (voted directly by the population, broadly in line with the population,…

It's also worth highlighting that in the US Federal representatives are democratically elected by the constituents whereas EU commissions are appointed. The US has Federal commissions called committees, but they have less legislative power

Those aren’t exactly commissions. They’re an organizational and productivity scheme of the Legislative branches through which they subdivide work between sitting democratically elected legislators. If something makes it out of committee, it can make it to the floor, but no committee is committing legislative acts on its own.

There are Executive agencies called “commissions”, but they don’t have bonafide legislative power, so much as a scheme by which they try to reinterpret the legislation that authorized their existence and outlined their powers and jurisdiction to accumulate to themselves more authority such that a Court will occasionally step in and say “naw dawg”.

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#42

Post by weberer »

vageli wrote: post #29
ta1243 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three groups passed this law * The EU Commission (headed by commissioners appointed by the government of the members, 1 per member) * The EU council (makde up of the heads of government of the members, 1 vote per member) - so sort of in line with US senate as originally enacted (where the state government chooses the senators) * The EU parliament (voted directly by the population, broadly in line with the population,…

> in the US, I believe states have to meet federal laws, they can't pass a law saying "murder is legal" or whatever. It's an imperfect system, but so is the US system. Marijuana is illegal at the federal level yet many states have legalized it.

State law can't override federal law. They have just instructed state police to not enforce that specific law. You could still be convicted by the FBI if they were to get involved for whatever reason, such as selling across state lines.

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#43

Post by Archelaos »

nirimda wrote: post #13
ta1243 wrote: post #2

Bulgaria, Poland and Portugal voted for it. Maybe they should have voted against it in council.

There is a problem with any legislative process that begins with the executive obligating the country to adopt certain specific laws, and only then asks the legislature whether those certain specific laws should become the law of the land. I don't fully understand the logic of this kind of legislative process. If the EU can make it binding on member states to introduce a certain law, why not perform the entire proces…

> why not include the possibility of a national veto at implementation stage

In case of such a veto of a single member, the whole legislative process would in the general case be set back to were it started, because the other members had agreed under the condition that everyone implements the agreement and other countries might want to renegotiate.

The EU's ability to force a country to a certain legislation goes even further: In the early years of the EU every country had to consent to an EU legislation; today, under the Lisbon Treaty[1], EU countries must implement an EU regulation in certain areas even if they voted against it. This is based on the belief that a union of 27 states would otherwise hardly be able to act.

There had been cases were single members had been granted specific exceptions (most notably the UK, during its membership, and Denmark when it joined) or must meet certain conditions before they need to implement something (for example, in principle every EU country except Denmark must introduce the Euro when it meets certain criteria; but the EU tolerates that Sweden deliberately fails one criterium, since it has voted in a referendum to stay out of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism II). But these exceptions had been agreed on beforehand and some date from a time when the sovereignty of the individual states was valued more highly. Today, the EU tends to avoid such special rules for general cases as far as possible, because legal fragmentation is seen as problematic.

[1] See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#44

Post by frankreyes »

weberer wrote: post #42
vageli wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the US, I believe states have to meet federal laws, they can't pass a law saying "murder is legal" or whatever. It's an imperfect system, but so is the US system. Marijuana is illegal at the federal level yet many states have legalized it.

State law can't override federal law. They have just instructed state police to not enforce that specific law. You could still be convicted by the FBI if they were to get involved for whatever reason, such as selling across state lines.

Is that what Biden un- did with the pardons?

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/presidential-proclamation-mar...

Sorry for the weird question, non us here o/

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#45

Post by eggy »

I haven't actually read the rules themselves, but not the how. How do they do what is enumerated below from the Tweet?:

"These two Directives aim to modernise copyright rules for consumers and creators to make the most of the digital world. They protect rightholders from different sectors, stimulating the creation and circulation of more high-value content. 2/3 #copyrightdirective #article15"

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#46

Post by ta1243 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #36
ta1243 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three groups passed this law * The EU Commission (headed by commissioners appointed by the government of the members, 1 per member) * The EU council (makde up of the heads of government of the members, 1 vote per member) - so sort of in line with US senate as originally enacted (where the state government chooses the senators) * The EU parliament (voted directly by the population, broadly in line with the population,…

It's also worth highlighting that in the US Federal representatives are democratically elected by the constituents whereas EU commissions are appointed. The US has Federal commissions called committees, but they have less legislative power

Who voted for the US Secretary of State?

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#47

Post by toyg »

vageli wrote: post #29
ta1243 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three groups passed this law * The EU Commission (headed by commissioners appointed by the government of the members, 1 per member) * The EU council (makde up of the heads of government of the members, 1 vote per member) - so sort of in line with US senate as originally enacted (where the state government chooses the senators) * The EU parliament (voted directly by the population, broadly in line with the population,…

> in the US, I believe states have to meet federal laws, they can't pass a law saying "murder is legal" or whatever. It's an imperfect system, but so is the US system. Marijuana is illegal at the federal level yet many states have legalized it.

Interstate trade of marijuana is illegal, even between states that legalized trade inside state borders.

Jurisdiction be jurisdictin'.

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#48

Post by toyg »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #36
ta1243 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three groups passed this law * The EU Commission (headed by commissioners appointed by the government of the members, 1 per member) * The EU council (makde up of the heads of government of the members, 1 vote per member) - so sort of in line with US senate as originally enacted (where the state government chooses the senators) * The EU parliament (voted directly by the population, broadly in line with the population,…

It's also worth highlighting that in the US Federal representatives are democratically elected by the constituents whereas EU commissions are appointed. The US has Federal commissions called committees, but they have less legislative power

EU commissioners work in partnership with elected Members of EU Parliament (MEP), for the simple reason that it makes no sense to write laws that MEPs will then veto.

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#49

Post by [deleted] »

piuantiderp wrote: post #40
Retric wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The China/US link is frequently overestimated it’s only 14% of total US trade. China isn’t even the US’s largest trading partner, it’s 3rd after Canada and Mexico, with a small lead over the EU. Really though the top 4 spots are all fairly close to each other.

I know that at least for Mexico, a lot of the trade with China has final destination the US.

[deleted]

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#50

Post by toyg »

prmoustache wrote: post #27
nirimda wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The directive was approved by the European parliament and the Council of the EU. The Council of the EU is made up of the governments of the member states of the EU. Therefore, when one says "Portugal voted for the directive", one means "the government of Portugal voted for the directive in the Council of the EU". This was the wrong thing for Portugal (or indeed, any government) to do because no government can guarant…

The government of the member states is not the parliament of the member states. Also between the date something pass at EU level and during the delay to transfer directive governments changes, parliament electives can be reelected, etc.

That's the case for any international treaty - which is effectively what these laws are.
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