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What if mass storage were free? (1980)

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Re: What if mass storage were free? (1980)

#41
post #21

We now (2023) live in a time where storing years of text and even audio is essentially free. Storing years of video is still actually costly. Btw: You need about 12 TB for a 1 year video stream at 3 Mbit/s, so it's certainly doable, but it's not cheap.

I'm still thinking of recording a 30 year video stream of my backyard just for the sake of it. :)

Re: What if mass storage were free? (1980)

#42
post #5
post #2

I just found this quite old paper and it came as a surprise to me to discover that the idea of append-only storage is not 20 years old but more than 40! The older work I was aware of is on "The design and implementation of a log-structured file system" (1) So this is with pleasure that I learned that these ideas was around in the 80: - Deletion considered harmful - A non-deletion strategy using timestamps - The impor…

A non-deletion strategy should consider including an encryption and key management strategy to enable retroactive secure deletion without impacting availability, reliability, and performance. This seems to be missing from a lot of systems that deal with personal information.

Absolutely. And not only that, but you need storage that you can delete the keys from, even if the primary storage is append only. It may sound like a trivial detail, but shredding gets harder and harder for every new layer of “smartness” that SSDs and file systems provide for convenience.

Re: What if mass storage were free? (1980)

#43
post #24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what if you accidentally wrote your private key, photos of your nude boyfriend, or evidence of a crime to your mass storage

The blocks with those would be scribbled over and invalidated. Do you know why ASCII 0x7f is DEL? Paper tape is write-once. To indicate a deleted character, it was conventional to punch holes in all bit positions -- 0x7f on a 7-bit punch.

excellent point

Re: What if mass storage were free? (1980)

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so I think memory was wrong on this. I found this online: > In the 1980's we used 14 inch drives in our DEC VAX cluster. Each 14 inch drive had a capacity of about 450MB Those platters were definitely the 14" size, and there was more than one of them in the refridgerator-sized unit. At this temporal distance, I can't guess what the overall size was anymore, but it was clearly not 1MB. Sorry for the misleading pos…

https://gunkies.org/wiki/RA81_disk_drive

A single head? Amazing.

Re: What if mass storage were free? (1980)

#45
post #37
post #12

If mass storage were free, then everything would be append-only by default. There would be no excuse to not do this. A major benefit of append-only is that your writes are always ideal for whatever storage medium. Especially magnetic or tape. Combine append-only with batching of transactions (i.e. across 1-10 milliseconds at a time), and you can write multiple txns per disk I/O operation (assuming txn size < storage…

Isn't information retrieval potentially more costly if you have to search over a larger sea of useless blocks. Certainly is the case in my garage+house where I can now store way more than I ever could in previous stages of my life.

The root should be locatable in ~constant time. If you use something like the splay tree, the most recently-used/modified/inserted data remains near the hotter side of the log. There is no linear scanning aside from initial bootstrap in an approach like this.

You can search for some comments I made recently about an append-only database scheme.

Re: What if mass storage were free? (1980)

#46
post #2

I just found this quite old paper and it came as a surprise to me to discover that the idea of append-only storage is not 20 years old but more than 40! The older work I was aware of is on "The design and implementation of a log-structured file system" (1) So this is with pleasure that I learned that these ideas was around in the 80: - Deletion considered harmful - A non-deletion strategy using timestamps - The impor…

The no-overwrite storage architecture of Postgres from 1985 also took advantage of optical write-once read-many (WORM) drives developed in the late 70's.

Re: What if mass storage were free? (1980)

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And -- in keeping with the flow of this thread -- a complete luxury until the implements (paper/pens/tape/disk/silicon) would become abundant and ubiquitous.

Paper and ink were good enough for centuries.

Paper especially was very expensive until approximately the 19th century.

Re: What if mass storage were free? (1980)

#48
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all! Medieval documents were routinely washed and reused.

More recently, movie studios regularly destroyed old film to make space for new ones, causing old pictures, especially silent era ones, to be lost forever. Even NASA wiped the original Apollo 11 tapes to reuse them.

This enrages me every time I see it. It's even worse with old broadcast TV, Especially daily serials/soaps. Shit is probably gone forever because the tapes were immediately wiped and reused. >:(

I know a lot of it stemmed from space and budget constraints but the complete lack of forward thinking everyone seems to have drives me bonkers.

I'm glad the Internet Archive exists. This current digital only future is terrifyingly ephemeral.

I really wish someone would give the Archive a massive, multi-billion endowment to guarantee it surviving for decades of operation with no forthcoming income.

Re: What if mass storage were free? (1980)

#49
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper and ink were good enough for centuries.

Paper especially was very expensive until approximately the 19th century.

The explosive growth in the printing industry suggests otherwise.

Re: What if mass storage were free? (1980)

#50
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper especially was very expensive until approximately the 19th century.

The explosive growth in the printing industry suggests otherwise.

We are simply pointing out there was a time when the surface one could write on was so precious, people used to cover previous works and re-use it instead of obtaining new ones (vellum, etc). So -- you're not wrong about the explosive growth. We're just pointing out the abundance of even writing instruments occurred at a certain point in history.
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