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Time-restricted eating reshapes gene expression throughout the body

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Re: Time-restricted eating reshapes gene expression throughout the body

#41

Post by birdyrooster »

piqi wrote: post #27
pammf wrote: post #14

I’ve been doing intermittent fasting for 2 years. Did a bunch of different protocols and eventually settled on ~18:6. Lost around 15kgs (from 105 to 90) and as a nice “side effect” got rid of all skin problems that I’d had during the previous 10 years or so. Today I don’t preach it anymore cause I got tired of debating whether it was healthy or not but I definitely recommend to everyone that’s truly interested in giv…

> ...got tired of debating whether it was healthy or not... I've had a similar experience. "unhealthy" seems to often be used in place of "not normal." I don't blame them. Advertising has been pushing "normal" food choices for 100+ years. Social gatherings are focused too much on eating. People are shamed for being "skin and bones." I've been doing it for more than 10 years. I never get hunger pangs. I don't feel the…

I mean some people look unhealthfully slim like they would starve if there was too much snow or they couldn't leave their house for a protracted time.

Re: Time-restricted eating reshapes gene expression throughout the body

#42

Post by cycomanic »

SavageBeast wrote: post #15
sidcool wrote: post #10

Does restricted time eating mean intermittent fasting?

Presuming you read the linked study but more or less (and this is argument fuel among The Faithful here ), "time restricted eating" spoken of here is Intermittent Fasting. The "restriction" here is that not a single calorie of anything is consumed outside of an 8 hour window and the 16 remaining hours in the day are nothing but water. Some people even like to do a 18:6 split too. The hacks in this style of eating is…

> EDIT: For extra credit - it's natural to look at Fasted Training in the same context. The hack here is that when you train at near peak low insulin levels ( or near peak anyhow which takes about 14h of fasting ) your body will suffer in terms of absolute performance but if done correctly you can train burning mostly fat. Theres as much on this subject to sort through as the first one. A whole host of hormonal and health benefits are purported here and I can say from experience I believe most of them having seen it myself.

I've done quite a bit of fasted training, but can't say I have seen a huge effect myself. That said, I was very fit at the time, most studies have been done on untrained subjects AFAIK. There are also studies that show that base metabolic rate increases after fasted training, but for men only while it decreases for women, which would be counterproductive if they would want to loose weight.

The main problem with most of the studies is that they have been done with very small study populations.

Re: Time-restricted eating reshapes gene expression throughout the body

#43

Post by aquafox »

andy_ppp wrote: post #21

A mouse only lives 5 years so if we scale everything based on this to humans you’d have to be fasting for 16h * (80 years / 5 years) = 256h or nearly 11 days. You could be damn sure doing this regularly your gene expression would change. Of course basing the scaling this way is completely ridiculous but no less ridiculous than inferring anything about humans from the original study.

Actually C57 black 6 mice (the ones used in the study), only live 2.5 - 3 years.

Re: Time-restricted eating reshapes gene expression throughout the body

#44

Post by arcturus17 »

StefanWestfal wrote: post #32
pammf wrote: post #14

I’ve been doing intermittent fasting for 2 years. Did a bunch of different protocols and eventually settled on ~18:6. Lost around 15kgs (from 105 to 90) and as a nice “side effect” got rid of all skin problems that I’d had during the previous 10 years or so. Today I don’t preach it anymore cause I got tired of debating whether it was healthy or not but I definitely recommend to everyone that’s truly interested in giv…

I tried it for some time but felt cranky in the morning until I ate at lunch time. How was your experience regarding cravings, hunger and mood changes over time when starting your fasting?

Not OP, but I've done ~16:8 intermetinent fasting (aka skipping breakfast) many times during my life, and have almost always experienced morning crankiness like you.

At times I've felt the crankiness has been good; the increased aggression has led to some really productive mornings. The flip side of the coin is that it sometimes also leads to negative thoughts and feelings of pessimism until I eat.

I prefer to have a more stable mood so what I'm doing as of late is drinking a protein shake with oat milk for breakfast and a high-quality multi-vitamin. The crankiness completely goes away and mental acuity is still high. It's still excellent for weight control since it's a ~200kcal breakfast that is digested very fast. Arguably better for recovery too since I practice sports every day. It's definitely not IF but it's been serving me well.

I'm also experimenting with a ~24h fast once a week, from Sunday lunch to Monday lunch, but don't have enough experience to know what it's doing for me yet.

Re: Time-restricted eating reshapes gene expression throughout the body

#45

Post by piqi »

birdyrooster wrote: post #41
piqi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...got tired of debating whether it was healthy or not... I've had a similar experience. "unhealthy" seems to often be used in place of "not normal." I don't blame them. Advertising has been pushing "normal" food choices for 100+ years. Social gatherings are focused too much on eating. People are shamed for being "skin and bones." I've been doing it for more than 10 years. I never get hunger pangs. I don't feel the…

I mean some people look unhealthfully slim like they would starve if there was too much snow or they couldn't leave their house for a protracted time.

Intermittent fasting has has nothing to do with being fat or skinny. My point about "skin and bones" is more about how normal it is to comment on someone that isn't overweight. I can't imagine people tolerating fat-shaming people in a friendly social context.

Re: Time-restricted eating reshapes gene expression throughout the body

#46

Post by [deleted] »

manmal wrote: post #36
mrandish wrote: post #4

Notes: - In mice. - Tested 16:8 pattern. - Sustained consistently for nine weeks. - No exploration in this study of the effects and/or benefits from the gene expression. N=1 but I've been doing ~16:8-ish along with strict keto for the past five years and the net benefits for me have been transformative in fitness (Weight: -100+ lbs, BMI: Obese->Fit), long-term health (A1C, LDL/HDL, Trigs, BP, resting heart rate all f…

To give another N=1, I don’t feel good on a 16:8 split. At least not when the eating window starts at noon. Long term (18 months) this zapped my energy and I lost a lot of muscle. Yes, weight loss was phenomenal, but I gained all of that back in the phase of exhaustion that followed. What has worked better for me was longer fasts, eg 48h, max once per week. And lately I‘ve been experimenting with skipping late dinner…

[deleted]

Re: Time-restricted eating reshapes gene expression throughout the body

#47

Post by wpietri »

StefanWestfal wrote: post #32
pammf wrote: post #14

I’ve been doing intermittent fasting for 2 years. Did a bunch of different protocols and eventually settled on ~18:6. Lost around 15kgs (from 105 to 90) and as a nice “side effect” got rid of all skin problems that I’d had during the previous 10 years or so. Today I don’t preach it anymore cause I got tired of debating whether it was healthy or not but I definitely recommend to everyone that’s truly interested in giv…

I tried it for some time but felt cranky in the morning until I ate at lunch time. How was your experience regarding cravings, hunger and mood changes over time when starting your fasting?

For what it's worth, I can happily do IF if I eat from 7a-1p, but I'm miserable if I do 12p-6p. I got super grouchy in the 10a-12p range and if anything that got worse over the month I tried it.

Re: Time-restricted eating reshapes gene expression throughout the body

#48

Post by wpietri »

andy_ppp wrote: post #31
ford wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you're coming from, but just because mice don't live as long as humans doesn't mean all biological processes happen 16x as fast. They don't defecate 16x as often as humans or sleep 16x per day. Do you think there is 0 signal about potential impacts on humans from testing on mice? How would you prefer research be done with a similar cost, ability to control variables, & level of ethics?

I think the extrapolations you’ve made from my comments are fighting an argument I’ve not made and am not interested in having because I’m not a scientist working on these things. What I’ve tried to explain in my comment is that we do not know how the metabolism of a mouse doing 16:8 relates to a human being. No more and no less, we simply do not know how to do that mapping and trying to draw conclusions about humans…

Your theory is that we don't know anything about the biological similarities and differences between humans and the animal most studied, one picked because it has a lot of biological similarities? That seems like quite a stretch.

I mean yes, people should not just assume that it will be the same. But as with a lot of studies in mice, it can inform what we study further in humans.

Re: Time-restricted eating reshapes gene expression throughout the body

#50

Post by andy_ppp »

wpietri wrote: post #48
andy_ppp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the extrapolations you’ve made from my comments are fighting an argument I’ve not made and am not interested in having because I’m not a scientist working on these things. What I’ve tried to explain in my comment is that we do not know how the metabolism of a mouse doing 16:8 relates to a human being. No more and no less, we simply do not know how to do that mapping and trying to draw conclusions about humans…

Your theory is that we don't know anything about the biological similarities and differences between humans and the animal most studied, one picked because it has a lot of biological similarities? That seems like quite a stretch. I mean yes, people should not just assume that it will be the same. But as with a lot of studies in mice, it can inform what we study further in humans.

No, that is not my theory. How similar is 16:8 for mice and humans? That’s all we are discussing here and all I’ve talked about! I’ve reread my comments and I really can’t see where I start talking about all biological similarities or not. I’m talking specifically about 16:8 fasting. Can you tell me how similar humans and mice are in this regard?
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