Even if we had discounts at the pump to subsidize things I wish different costs like environmental costs were added to the price so people could at least see the the true price to make decisions
Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
41–50 of 176 posts
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#42I worry about the 'futureproofness' of heat pumps. Specifically, heat pumps use more energy on cold days. They use a massive amount more energy on the coldest days. Today, if you use double the electricity, it costs double the money. Thats affordable as long as it happens rarely. But, with lots of people getting EV's and heat pumps, and the generation mix getting more wind and solar, I forsee energy companies forcing…
What about sand batteries? They're cheap, safe, scalable, extremely durable, and they can take advantage of dynamic pricing (or intermittent energy sources). They are easy to connect to an existing heating system.
They're relatively new, but a few companies are making them now and there's a LOT of handy homeowners playing with that tech right now.
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#43I worry about the 'futureproofness' of heat pumps. Specifically, heat pumps use more energy on cold days. They use a massive amount more energy on the coldest days. Today, if you use double the electricity, it costs double the money. Thats affordable as long as it happens rarely. But, with lots of people getting EV's and heat pumps, and the generation mix getting more wind and solar, I forsee energy companies forcing…
Nuclear and time shifting also would prevent this. The US is instead going all-in on renewables with gas turbines to fill in the (large) gaps, locking us into carbon-based electricity for an additional thirty years, at least.
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#44Heat pumps are obviously great but the enthusiasm for regulating Green technology into housing design seems to me to trade the interests of the poor for the interests of the upper middle class.
Short-term interests of the poor, that is. On the next round, when non-renewable energy will become really scarce, poor won't be able to heat their homes at all without "green technology".
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#45Heat pumps are obviously great but the enthusiasm for regulating Green technology into housing design seems to me to trade the interests of the poor for the interests of the upper middle class.
Short-term interests of the poor, that is. On the next round, when non-renewable energy will become really scarce, poor won't be able to heat their homes at all without "green technology".
Easy to say “this is what you should want” when it’s really what I want.
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#46There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…
In addition to this, I think we should go back to doing things the hard way, the old-school way: adapt and adjust your lifestyle to temperature changes like our ancestors did. Let the temperature dictate your cooking: do the dishes that require oven use, that require you to have 3 stoves on at the same time (and crucially, avoid these dishes in the summer!).
Go on a bulk in the winter time so that you are more resilient to cold with that extra weight on you (and go on a cut in the summer). Set the temperature a little colder, put on a sweater, do more physical work. This is how the human body has evolved! - to be able to do withstand a little bit of cold, to sometimes be hungry for a long time. Always adjusting your environment for the absolute peak levels of comfort is probably not doing you any good and the heat pump's limitations are not that bad in this regard.
I think letting your life revolve around customs is fun as well as a biological necessity to some degree. If you skip the chance to test it out and let it face a challenge every now and then, you're not doing yourself favors. This elderly gentleman can make it fine alone in Yakutia where temperatures can reach as low as about -100 deg F, you probably can as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOltGIaDPlY
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#47I worry about the 'futureproofness' of heat pumps. Specifically, heat pumps use more energy on cold days. They use a massive amount more energy on the coldest days. Today, if you use double the electricity, it costs double the money. Thats affordable as long as it happens rarely. But, with lots of people getting EV's and heat pumps, and the generation mix getting more wind and solar, I forsee energy companies forcing…
Whether electric companies have that kind of pricing isn't a pure economics question, it's a question of what regulators will alow, and I'm pretty skeptical that regulators would allow that. But "how does the grid handle spikes in demand" is the really interesting question there, and why more transmission lines (to smooth out supply/demand geographically) and reliable sources of "firm" power are important. Energy sto…
It's not about regulators, it's that you need something rarely, but it's capital costs aren't less than something you need often, so it's going to be really expensive for the short time you need it. Even if you spread the cost out over the year, consumers are paying it one way or another. Our only plan for seasonal change in production and demand is to over-build gas turbines.
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no modern system that "just works" whatever the weather. We had an ice storm when I was growing up and lost power for 3 days. Wood stove worked great as a backup, not much else would have.
Why wouldn't a gas furnace have worked?
FWIW older gas water heaters that use a standing pilot flame and piezoelectric ignition can run without electricity. Combustion products are vented passively by convection. With this type, as long as you've got gas, you can have hot water. Maybe huddle by the hot water tank?
For the sake of efficiency, most newer gas water heaters need electricity for ignition as well as to power the fan that exhaust gases.
All gas furnaces will need electricity to run the fans.
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#49I worry about the 'futureproofness' of heat pumps. Specifically, heat pumps use more energy on cold days. They use a massive amount more energy on the coldest days. Today, if you use double the electricity, it costs double the money. Thats affordable as long as it happens rarely. But, with lots of people getting EV's and heat pumps, and the generation mix getting more wind and solar, I forsee energy companies forcing…
Seems to me that if regulators allow that kind of dynamic pricing, then it would come with much cheaper rates at other times.
Suppose you did pay $300 on one cold night... but it also turned out that your electric bill for May and September was basically $0. Would that be the worst thing in the world? Utilities are monopolies, and regulators keep an eye on their total bottom line. A massive yearly profit would come in for scrutiny.
Rather than maintaining individual gas heaters, it's more likely that the energy companies would maintain gas-powered peaker plants. If they operate 1% of the year, then we've cut 99% of the carbon emissions, with no loss of service. Even if they somehow had to operate 10% of the year, that's a 90% drop in CO2.
Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback
#50There was a thread [0] on /r/Maine in the aftermath of the extreme cold snap last weekend, when outdoor temps dropped into the negative double digits, where people chimed in on how their heat pumps held up. By and large, they confirmed that the manufacturers' claims are correct -- they do keep working (albeit less efficiently) down to the rated temperatures and in some cases even below. The winning strategy, at least…
For 'enthusiasts', a dual heat source system is a good plan. But regular folk want to just pay the energy bill and have a warm home, whatever the weather outside. They don't care to worry about lighting the wood stove on super cold days. They don't want to have to have a wood delivery separate from their energy bill, and be carting it around in boxes. They don't want to huddle into the room with the wood stove becaus…
> Regular folk aren't interested in heating systems
It's Maine. Regular folk are interested in heating systems.