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Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

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41–50 of 237 posts

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#41

> premium cards [are] commercial, corporate, or business cards issued by Visa and Mastercard [and attract more expensive fees, even compared to Amex] Does anyone know more about that? Why are they more expensive? Is there a different underlying cost structure, or simply price discrimination by some intermediary? There's more information on "premium cards" here[0], but it doesn't explain the price difference or why a…

Because they give more benefits (insurance, lounge access, cashback etc...) and someone has to pay for this (i.e. the merchants).

For example R̶e̶v̶o̶l̶u̶t̶ ̶M̶e̶t̶a̶l̶ premium cards and corporate cards which offers benefits such as lounge access to pay-to-use lounges, travel insurance, cashback etc.. are mostly designed by the schemes in parternship with the issuing banks.

Also note that mostly in the US and Europe AMEX works in another way than Visa and MasterCard. Where V and MC are in a 4 party model (Issuing Bank that gets interchange, Processor (like Stripe) that processes the payment and gets a cut, Merchant that pays the merchant discount rate (or processing fee) and the customer that got their card from their issuing bank getting some benefits) Amex mostly cuts out the issuing bank and issues the cards to the customers directly.

Hence because they don't have to share the interchange with the banks they offer way better benefits on their cards (airmiles, centurion lounges, travel benefits, extensive insurance) but also at a high cost for the merchant because these are really premium cards.

Some consumer banks do issue AMEX cards so they will get their interchange.

In Asia there's also Amex Debit cards, I think definitely less popular in the rest of the world.

Something to note, also a lot of people in Europe think Visa or MasterCard == a Credit Card, this is not true. A credit card is an actual revolving credit instrument issued to the consumer by a credit institution such as a bank that then uses Visa or MasterCard rails.

A card that you get from Lloyds or HSBC when you open an account in the UK might say Visa or MasterCard but it's on a prepaid or debit programme with the scheme but using Visa and MasterCard payment rails. The interchange on these (pre-brexit) and still in Europe is capped by law.

Furthermore a lot of EU, Latam and Asian countries have their local payment rails which run at way lower costs than Visa and MasterCard to the merchants (Wechat, Alipay, Giropay, Payconiq etc.. to name a few).

One last thing, I do think Open Banking in the UK and Europe, especially when Variable Recurring Payments are coming will be a game changer. The banks have been lobbying to delay most of the UX improvements for the users because they just make too much money as an issuer to get interchange.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#42

I have been pondering transaction costs lately. Seems like this is an area where intervention could have massive impact: these costs are effectively a tax that incurs deadweight loss so according to prevailing economic theory if we can reduce it the whole economy should be catalysed. IIUC governments already introduce price caps for certain elements of this market but I think we could be doing more? Like mandating in…

> IIUC governments already introduce price caps for certain elements of this market but I think we could be doing more? Like mandating incumbents to implement open standards and subsidising their competitors?

This is a very dangerous path to go down. Direct price control by governments usually leads to unforeseen consequences and often to disaster. Mandating open standards is probably a good idea.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#43
post #30

> Dispute fees (also known as chargebacks) will increase from €15 to €20. Due to costs for managing dispute evidence submissions (regardless of outcome), we'll no longer refund this fee if the customer's bank resolves the dispute in your favor. > If you or your users have an account located in an EEA country that has not adopted the Euro, here are the fixed fees of €20 in local currencies: Bulgaria: ЛВ40; Czech Repub…

It makes taking cards via Stripe completely untenable as anyone can dispute a legit charge and you're still out of pocket - imagine being charged 20 EUR for a 3 eur order even if the customer actually ordered it and just felt like being a dick

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#44
post #30

> Dispute fees (also known as chargebacks) will increase from €15 to €20. Due to costs for managing dispute evidence submissions (regardless of outcome), we'll no longer refund this fee if the customer's bank resolves the dispute in your favor. > If you or your users have an account located in an EEA country that has not adopted the Euro, here are the fixed fees of €20 in local currencies: Bulgaria: ЛВ40; Czech Repub…

That merchants hold almost 100% of the liability for fraud even if they do everything "right" to vet a transaction is crazy to me. The other parties (issuing bank, payment processor, payment network) are in a much better position to combat and detect fraud, since they see ALL the transactions. But the incentive to do better is low, since the merchant not only holds the bag, but sends them a penalty fee.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#45
I thought they would be benefitting from everyone else raising their prices. Isn't this double dipping?

Edit: and isn't it quite likely it's easy for companies just to pass this charge straight on to customers, given the climate? Maybe that was Stripe's intention with the timing

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#46
post #15

I don't know how Stripe can justify these pricing, except for "oh we can extract more money, let's do that!". In other (non-Western) countries pricing for local payment systems can be less than half of what Stripe charges, e. g. Alipay (one of the biggest Chinese payment services) charges about 0.55% merchant fee without per-transaction cost.

Why don't Stripe customers shift to Alipay? I don't know anything about the service, but that seems like a pretty straightforward win, if they're as similar as you suggest.

Different regulations probably.

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#47

> premium cards [are] commercial, corporate, or business cards issued by Visa and Mastercard [and attract more expensive fees, even compared to Amex] Does anyone know more about that? Why are they more expensive? Is there a different underlying cost structure, or simply price discrimination by some intermediary? There's more information on "premium cards" here[0], but it doesn't explain the price difference or why a…

[deleted]

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#48
In Switzerland Stripe is already 2.9% + CHF0.30 which is higher than the new rate in the EU.

If you want a local solution that also can do Twint (Swiss p2p payments) without extra contracts then I would recommend you try Payrexx[1].

Per transaction fees are also less than what Stripe is charging although you have a monthly fixed fee.

[1] https://www.payrexx.ch

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#49
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher costs of compliance in the EU perhaps?

EU has limited the fees credit card companies can apply on transactions in Europe, doesn't that mean Stripe should have lower overhead costs there?

That only applies to the card networks not merchants or processors, but there is also a dual rate system that the EU are obsessed with where intra EU is much cheaper, they mandated the same for voice calls too, it's very dumb and just insulates the EU further (which is their plan it seems)

Re: Stripe increases price for business in the European Economic Area

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, they can't. But no one is enforcing it because there is a plan to change the law.

No. Technically it's illegal to provide such service, not receive it. Fun fact, this very website is not GDPR compliant. I've never ever seen a cookie notice on HN, which is legally required. Of course, none of this is relevant, because AFAIK HN has no physical presence in the EU, but still, this site is not GDPR compliant, which just outlines how stupid GDPR actually is.

> I've never ever seen a cookie notice on HN, which is legally required.

What for? The GDPR does not require consent for purely functional cookies, and the only data I see stored is my account cookie. So the existing privacy policy should cover them.

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