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Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

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Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#41
post #31
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a mobile phone is now a prerequisite for living, governments should issue them to all citizens, and provide maintenance and replacement. Or just don't expect people who don't own a phone to own a ticket.

Not just a mobile phone, but a phone with either iOS or Android. Plus, a phone with an account with either of two parent companies (avoiding that on Android is possible, but far from trivial). Any "alternative" system is basically a non-starter as all these apps are typically only developed for these platforms, and it's become very hard for any new player to enter the market. While the duopoly is better than the mono…

It doesn't need to be a phone running iOS and Android, you just need an email client and a PDF viewer for UK train etickets

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#42
post #29
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price on the ticket is also £1.90M

It usually has an "X" suffix. I'm not sure what the "M" stands for; maybe to mark it as a specimen?

X means you paid with a credit card.

M means you paid with cash ("money").

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#43

During the COVID outbreak, my public transit provider began to neglect their fareboxes (partly because everyone was boarding in the rear and didn't bother to pay fares anyway.) I noticed that the boxes were still broken and unmaintained. I put 2 and 2 together and realized that a mobile "upgrade" was coming soon, so I kept my eyes out. And sure enough, I got myself invited to participate in the pilot project with the…

This sounds like valley metro

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#44

Nobody who cheers "mobile tickets" has ever watched a guard or ticket inspector do their job. In the UK, a guard with good eyesight and a sprightly, cheerful manner can almost run through the carriages shouting "tickets please!" and see, with a single glance, all s/he needs. Then she gets to the muppets with phones. They faff, fumble and fuss. They scowl at being interrupted watching videos, browsing social media and…

Paper tickets are an absolute pain - I hate having to fumble around trying to find them, instead of just double clicking the power button and bringing up my Wallet.

I've only ever had it checked by the barriers, I can't remember the last time I saw a conductor checking tickets on a train.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#45
post #41
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just a mobile phone, but a phone with either iOS or Android. Plus, a phone with an account with either of two parent companies (avoiding that on Android is possible, but far from trivial). Any "alternative" system is basically a non-starter as all these apps are typically only developed for these platforms, and it's become very hard for any new player to enter the market. While the duopoly is better than the mono…

It doesn't need to be a phone running iOS and Android, you just need an email client and a PDF viewer for UK train etickets

If that's the case they should be issued free (as in tea in the harbor) open source devices free from Apple/Google spyware for this purpose.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In London you can use a normal contactless debit or credit card or NFC payment on a phone for public transport. This is great for Londoners, and even better for visitors who don't need to figure out what they need to buy or how to top up a card. I don't belive the ticket apps being discussed keep a balance, but I haven't used them myself.

I’ve seen that system in quite a few cities now. I’m was initially surprised to see it adopted, because breakage revenue can be enormous. But it’s common enough now that I find places using exclusively the old stored value cards to be outright contemptible.

Think about it from their shoes. Why would you actively spend resources to replace an existing "working" system to develop and implement a new and more efficient system which nets you less resources?

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#47

> Nowadays, the industry would very much like you to ditch your paper ticket in favour of a fancy mobile barcode one (or an ITSO smartcard2); not only do they not have to spend money on printing tickets but they also gain the ability to more precisely track the ticket’s usage across the network and minimise fraud. And unsurprisingly only a subset of tickets are available on the apps. Therefore the government gets its…

I dunno about the UK, but I think RFID readers might just be cheaper because they require so little maintenance.

I bought a single-use one-way subway ticket recently. When I got to the turnstiles, none of them had slots to swipe or insert the ticket.

Of course, it's 2023. You can tap the paper ticket as if you had a refillable or monthly pass, it has the RFID circuitry sandwiched between paper layers. No more mechanical moving parts which can break and slow down the rush hour commute.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#48
This reminds me of the time when I was a college student in Massachusetts and would always try to reverse-engineer the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority tickets, powered by JustRide (oh! Just noticed it's the same company as in the article)

Unfortunately, my skills weren't quite there at that point in my life, and I no longer live in Massachusetts, but this was an incredible read regardless and I feel at least a bit of closure now :)

The MBTA tickets had an option of color bars (so the conductors could just visually check if all of them match throughout all the passengers) and a QR option, so I would always try to figure out how it generates those colors, as the tickets had to be able to function offline, and as the tickets all showed the same colors regardless of passenger, they certainly weren't unique per-purchase nor used any user-unique info (though they may have been unique per-train-route).

I should take another look at it with this article as a resource.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#49
On the Florida Turnpike it was always too expensive for many students when they traveled up and down the state.

It was bad enough having captive service stations and restaurants for overpriced products, but the toll was and still is ridiculous too, considering it was agreed there would be no toll after the construction was paid for, And it was well paid for decades ago.

Anyway there were only very few exits and they were mostly rural until you got to South Florida where you could get off and on every few miles. The captive service stations needeed to be built at the same time as the Turnpike or everybody would run out of gas back then.

Except Orlando which was a very small city before Disney came in, but their gas stations were still closed late at night and on Sunday.

Tickets were reverse engineered in a completely analog way.

The "main entrance" to the Turnpike coming south was out in the middle of nowhere where the I-75 freeway keeps going to Tampa but you smoothly get over to the main gates of the Turnpike if you want to head down to Miami instead. You would just breeze on through and pick up a ticket at the northernmost gate, and the further you traveled south, the more toll you would have to pay when you got off.

Students would get off of I-75 avoiding the Turnpike and drive on the rural roads about a half-hour until you get to the next Turnpike entrance and pick up a (very valuable) ticket there instead of at the main entrance to the north.

As you got down toward the Palm Beach area, where the northbounders and southbounders still shared the gas stations and restaurants in the central plazas, many northbound travelers would willingly trade tickets from wherever they got on in South Florida for one which will only cost them as much as if they got on at the very last chance before hitting the northernmost exit.

Northbounders would then get off right where they were going to anyway, one exit away from where we got on, and we would get off one exit away from where they got on, and everybody came out ahead, paying the minimum tolls possible.

It took a long time before any toll-takers started looking at the tickets and asking "why did it take 6 hours to only go one exit?"

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#50

The bit at the end regarding the unauthenticated anti-fraud database of trips reminds me of bus tickets in a couple of australian states, which (locally on the 13MHz MFC cards) store a short rolling log of your most recent trips. Not as bad as a public API, but probably some degree of a personal safety risk given the security around MFC cards and the ability to ascertain pattern-of-life from the data

Those are useful for ticket inspectors and also for troubleshooting issues e.g. if the fare gate won't let you out.
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