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Stop developing this technology

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Re: Stop developing this technology

#41

Post by entropi »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #10
jolmg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"must" is probably the wrong word, but if they don't develop it, someone else will. At most, it would be delayed, and I'm not sure there's much difference in that.

Can we agree that “someone would have done this anyway” is a poor justification for one’s actions? That’s what you say when you 1) recognize that you did a bad thing, but 2) don’t want to be blamed for it.

I actually don't agree with this. Assume that the following premises are true:

* action x is legal, but results in a worse world for everyone. * doing action x benefits the first 1000 people who do it. * much more than 1000 are capable of doing x, including me. * if I do it now, I will be one of the first 1000.

If these are true, I think one should do action x. I believe one would be completely justified in doing it.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#42

Post by wnkrshm »

pfortuny wrote: post #14
jolmg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"must" is probably the wrong word, but if they don't develop it, someone else will. At most, it would be delayed, and I'm not sure there's much difference in that.

Right. Tell that to Einstein, who just before Hiroshima realized it was not such a good argument. That is a nice piece of history. Ethics is important. And one consequence is: I may die but at least it was not because I made it possible.

What it boils down to is: If someone else will just do it, then wait and let them do it. If it has morally objectionable consequences, either you care about that and do not involve yourself, or you don't and you go ahead. But then you cannot say you didn't get your hands dirty.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#43

Post by kefka_p »

thejarren wrote: post #33
kefka_p wrote: post #25

Can anybody demonstrate a legitimate use of deepfake software? Has it ever been used to facilitate a socially positive or desirable outcome? While I recognize my experiences are far from definitive, I hazard most would be hard pressed to name anything positive that came out of deepfake technology. edit: I’ll take your knee-jerk DV, and any others, as an admission of an inability to speak to positive utility of this t…

Edit: this comment is referring to deepfakes more broadly, and is not a commentary on the validity of the source linked here. I can't speak to the reputability of the community developing this, or how it has been used so far. -- I'm a fairly visual and imaginative person, and it's pretty easy for me to come up with some very useful applications. No hostility intended, genuinely sharing my thoughts: 1. CGI for video e…

First let me thank you for a thoughtful riposte! I do appreciate that. My question was an honest one and I imagine, not the easiest to conceive an answer to. I genuinely appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts.

With that said almost every use-case cited was financial or monetary gain whereas I enquired about social utility and value.

That dishonesty ie creation of a fake avatar is cited as being of social utility strikes me as a reach. I don’t see how adding more dishonesty and facades to the world adds social value, but then I may just be of limited imagination.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#44

Post by wnkrshm »

rvieira wrote: post #35

Particularly ironic using the defence of "it’s not the technology that’s to blame, but the person, not the machine gun, but the person". Machine guns, an advanced piece of engineering widely known to being developed purely as an academic exercise. No one could expect other uses.

The argument is slightly different here though: The OP is blaming the person who invented the machine gun in the analogy.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#45

Post by dmingod666 »

jevgeni wrote: post #31
pfortuny wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Tell that to Einstein, who just before Hiroshima realized it was not such a good argument. That is a nice piece of history. Ethics is important. And one consequence is: I may die but at least it was not because I made it possible.

Yeah, theory of relativity and tech with use cases mostly in porn and fraud aren't really the same thing.

Your response doesn't make any sense. Care to elaborate?

Re: Stop developing this technology

#46

Post by 317070 »

kefka_p wrote: post #25

Can anybody demonstrate a legitimate use of deepfake software? Has it ever been used to facilitate a socially positive or desirable outcome? While I recognize my experiences are far from definitive, I hazard most would be hard pressed to name anything positive that came out of deepfake technology. edit: I’ll take your knee-jerk DV, and any others, as an admission of an inability to speak to positive utility of this t…

As one example, Matt Stone and Trey Parker made a short movie (and tried to do a feature) with deep fake technology [0].

[0] https://collider.com/trey-parker-matt-stone-almost-made-sass...

Re: Stop developing this technology

#47

Post by rvense »

wnkrshm wrote: post #44
rvieira wrote: post #35

Particularly ironic using the defence of "it’s not the technology that’s to blame, but the person, not the machine gun, but the person". Machine guns, an advanced piece of engineering widely known to being developed purely as an academic exercise. No one could expect other uses.

The argument is slightly different here though: The OP is blaming the person who invented the machine gun in the analogy.

Which is obviously reasonable! If you know how to build weapons, don't. Let somebody else do it.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#48

Post by wnkrshm »

winrid wrote: post #22

On a side note, is this really all in Python? I imagine it's offloading some stuff to the GPU right? Maybe the GPU instructions are also stored in python??

Among others it's using pytorch and numpy, two python packages written in compiled languages, torch can use the GPU.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#49

Post by Kiro »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #3

Regardless of what I think about this technology in particular, I want to respond to this line from the second comment: [1] > on the contrary, it must be developed. No, it mustn’t. There’s not a gun to your head, forcing you to do this. You want to develop this technology. That’s why it’s happening. Technology isn’t inevitable. It’s a choice we make. And we can go in circles about whether it’s good or bad, but at lea…

We do in fact have a gun to our heads. I don't want to ruin your life but those who know know and it starts with R and B. Look it up at your own risk.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#50

Post by dspillett »

kefka_p wrote: post #25

Can anybody demonstrate a legitimate use of deepfake software? Has it ever been used to facilitate a socially positive or desirable outcome? While I recognize my experiences are far from definitive, I hazard most would be hard pressed to name anything positive that came out of deepfake technology. edit: I’ll take your knee-jerk DV, and any others, as an admission of an inability to speak to positive utility of this t…

The technology isn't just deep fake, deep faking is one ability of techniques that do more general object/person replacement. It is such a small step between techniques for things like digital de-aging to a full fake face, that working on one makes the others possible and trying to ban one will have unintended consequences on the others.
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