Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 469 posts

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#41

Post by junofan »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #26
GoToRO wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One company did exactlly that: everybody must be in the office in 3 weeks, 25% quit, no layoffs needed.

In countries with strong labor laws, that rapid dramatic unilateral change in working location itself would count as similar to a sudden firing without cause for workers who don't want to accept the change in work location, either for all such workers or for those who can't easily begin or resume a commute to the office on such short notice. I wish the US had stronger labor laws. :(

You can make a constructive dismissal claim if permanent WFH was agreed upon. But doubt that was the case here.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#42

Post by jack_riminton »

gilbert_vanova wrote: post #17
pmarreck wrote: post #6

This claim violates Hanlon’s Razor “Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.” Over-hiring, over-salarying and not anticipating the consequences of a pandemic and post-pandemic on business might qualify as “incompetence” The thing that bothers me is this tone I'm seeing online and in particular in this discussion where people presume that a salary is owed no matter what, and t…

I have a recent counter razor: "Never attribute to malice or stupidity what is better explained by self-interest" Many of these orgs laying off thousands have fallen into the depths of a moral maze -- where rational thinking is just impossible and all that's left is self-preservation.

Exactly, the incentives will explain the behaviour, they always do. I suspect managers being judged on their number of direct reports explains some of the over-hiring.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#43

Post by dylan604 »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #24

does this imply the lay-offs were a product of collusion at the executive level across the entire sector? If anyone could find evidence of that it would be extremely news-worthy. If I might adorn my hat of tin-foil for a second; at a big corp I used to work at, I heard execs predicting this outcome back in early 2022 in combination with being incredibly relaxed about the employment market being extremely hot at the t…

doesn't imply that to me. this is not the first market down turn. this is not the first time companies have shed employees in anticipation of a market down turn. this is also not the first time to use this type of situation to unload less desirable employees. it also provides for companies with cover with the unions (especially those just formed).

no collusion necessary to be familiar with history

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#44

Post by AnEro »

Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

Doubt that will happen, we still go to this VC's website for content aggregation. Most are caught in hustle culter and want to be, and others are doing it for independance and power and won't want a union.

Ultimately I don't think our type of nerds will get together on this style of politics

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#45

Post by dougSF70 »

pmarreck wrote: post #6

This claim violates Hanlon’s Razor “Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.” Over-hiring, over-salarying and not anticipating the consequences of a pandemic and post-pandemic on business might qualify as “incompetence” The thing that bothers me is this tone I'm seeing online and in particular in this discussion where people presume that a salary is owed no matter what, and t…

I agree, firms thought the era of cheap money (10+ years) combined with ramped up demand caused by pandemic would last for a good while longer. They forgot about Galton's reversion to the mean...

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#47

Post by kilgnad »

Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense.

Times change.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#48

Post by vorpalhex »

jacknews wrote: post #12
pmarreck wrote: post #6

This claim violates Hanlon’s Razor “Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.” Over-hiring, over-salarying and not anticipating the consequences of a pandemic and post-pandemic on business might qualify as “incompetence” The thing that bothers me is this tone I'm seeing online and in particular in this discussion where people presume that a salary is owed no matter what, and t…

But they all find themselves in the same predicament all at the same time, across diverse markets and services? As far as I can tell there's is no actual downturn in the market, this is all anticipation. And so it's a 'movement' even if it's not a diffuse, or actual conspiracy.

> As far as I can tell there's is no actual downturn in the market

You are dramatically incorrect. Unit sales, free spending, rates and inflation.

+ https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stocks-poised-hit-lows-survey...

+ https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/apple-sales-expected-to-f...

+ https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/25/inflation-is-cooling-but-hig...

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#49

Post by asciii »

widowlark wrote: post #38
gilbert_vanova wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a recent counter razor: "Never attribute to malice or stupidity what is better explained by self-interest" Many of these orgs laying off thousands have fallen into the depths of a moral maze -- where rational thinking is just impossible and all that's left is self-preservation.

Vanova's Razor

-sigh- I google Vanova's razor and then realized you were quoting OP. :)

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#50

Post by Quarrelsome »

pm90 wrote: post #35
Quarrelsome wrote: post #24

does this imply the lay-offs were a product of collusion at the executive level across the entire sector? If anyone could find evidence of that it would be extremely news-worthy. If I might adorn my hat of tin-foil for a second; at a big corp I used to work at, I heard execs predicting this outcome back in early 2022 in combination with being incredibly relaxed about the employment market being extremely hot at the t…

It would be difficult to prove active collusion, its more like institutionalized collusion, and I doubt that's a crime. e.g. the same consulting firms are hired by all companies, and they will give the same advice when dealing with falling revenues, plunging stock prices etc.

> It would be difficult to prove active collusion

Unless an IT admin stumbles across some interesting emails...

Post reply on HN