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Pfizer Responds to Covid Gain of Function Research Claims

pfizer.com

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Re: Pfizer Responds to Covid Gain of Function Research Claims

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually does show that, albeit he says they're considering/planning on doing it, not doing it right now. The clips where he talks about it are long and with plenty of context, the man in question does indeed have the title Veritas claimed for him (although they are now trying to scrub his internet presence), and when he was confronted with the recordings he freaked out and attacked the reporters. On every thread…

You insult the intelligence of anyone to suggest that Project Veritas does not have a right-wing political agenda. Whether it is "far" to the right, I don't know. I'd certainly be curious to see the videos if they were to turn their spycraft/journalism (I'll admit there may be some overlap in those) on powerful right-wing figures, but we both know that will not be happening. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a va…

No insult to anyone's intelligence intended, because it feels actually the other way around. This supposed far right agenda is asserted but never proven. It's just claimed that it must exist.

Here is their agenda in their own words:

"Project Veritas journalists working undercover on their own or by, with and through idealistic insiders bring to the American people the corrupt private truths hidden behind the walls of their institutions."

That's classical investigative journalism. But given this mission statement it's pretty obvious why the left thinks they're being targeted: they managed to take over practically all powerful institutions, including media institutions that would once have held up Veritas style reporting proudly and given it awards. How many important American institutions are run by "powerful right wing figures", exactly? Maybe a handful at most? Now how many institutions explicitly and loudly align themselves with the agenda of the left (idpol, Follow The Sciencism etc)? It's uncountably more. Just given the sheer quantities of captured institutions in question, any Veritas style initiative will inevitably uncover more corruption on the left simply because that's where the power actually is.

He didn't say they plan to release new viruses, obviously none of the idiot scientists in this whole sorry saga actually intend to release the viruses they make. What we do know is they seem to delight in using vaccine development as the justification for fiddling with dangerous viruses, even though there's no clear link between the work Wuhan was doing and later vaccine development, that they much prefer doing dangerous work in very low safety conditions because the higher BSL levels are tedious and get in the way, and we also know that they'd rather engage in coverups than admit the possibility that a virus escaped from their own labs.

That's why the executive in the video states clearly that it's a secret, the journalist shouldn't tell anyone, and that the public would hate it if they found out.

Edit: reading a bit more, they say that their biggest scoop ever was an ABC News anchor saying she had the Epstein story and killed it due to pressure from the British Royal Family. So their top hit is actually one that attacks what is arguably the most conservative institution in Britain! It doesn't really get more "powerful right wing figure" than the Queen, yet Veritas didn't hesitate to reveal their machinations. So this far right claim is clearly just a smear.

Re: Pfizer Responds to Covid Gain of Function Research Claims

#42
So the way I read this statement, they explicitly say state "Pfizer has not conducted gain of function."

Then they later admit, " In a limited number of cases when a full virus does not contain any known gain of function mutations, such virus may be engineered to enable the assessment of antiviral activity in cells." (I'm not exactly clear what that means, but it reads like they do gain-of-function to me. I've learned that when people are usually unclear on very important statements it's often the worse interpretation that's true, otherwise they'd have a reason to be clear).

Then they quickly defend "It is important to note that these studies are required by U.S. and global regulators for all antiviral products and are carried out by many companies and academic institutions in the U.S. and around the world."

So I'd take this to mean one of two things:

1) Gain of function research is required & happening everywhere and they just stopped telling everyone because it's so political so we now weasel-word around it; if you were technical you'd understand

or

2) They are twisting words very hard in this press statement about what is "required"

Re: Pfizer Responds to Covid Gain of Function Research Claims

#43
post #31
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like this is always posted whenever Project Veritas comes up. I agree they're mostly finding things for outrage culture and are generally annoying... sometimes they uncover legitimately concerning things though. That said, here's an example of why I dislike this "argument." Joseph Bruno, Dean of Students, Francis W. Parker School: “So, I’ve been the Dean for four years. During Pride -- we do a Pride Week ev…

Your substitution... - passing around butt-plugs and dildos to my students + [giving] out sex toys to kids ...is an example of exactly the kind of transcription error via which controversy ignites into hysteria. If we are to interpret your intent charitably, we must also charitably assume that abstract anatomical models (sex toys) are a useful and valid demonstration tool in the context of sexual health education.

FWIW most dildos aimed at women are not actually "anatomical models" and would not be recognizable if you've never seen one before. Likewise, butt-plugs may sound kinky but they don't look particularly imposing unless you deliberately go for extreme sizes. Also presumably much like condoms often handed out to students in sex ed, it's safe to assume these aren't used. The "leak" deliberately evokes the image of a queer predator handing out their own massive butt plugs and veiny rubber dongs to children to seduce them into sexual acts.

The video is not just supposed to spark outrage with extreme conservatives who think giving "children" (I can't find any source specifying the age so this could be anything from 6 to 17) an opportunity to ask questions about sex is child abuse (or "grooming", "sexualizing children", etc), but also moderates who assume the worst because of how this "revelation" is reported on (after all, if it makes headlines, it must be bad).

Re: Pfizer Responds to Covid Gain of Function Research Claims

#44
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not watched the video, but I will note that “passing around” can mean “passing around the room [and then taking back].” The linked article says only the toys were “shown.” This is not the same as “[giving] out sex toys to kids.”

For the people that the story targets, even if there may be that misunderstanding, does that make it any much better?

I'd wager the group of people outraged hearing that some person who is not even a teacher is invited to hand out veiny rubber dongs to their children is larger than the group of people outraged hearing that a sexual health educator passed around something that looks more like a smooth plastic carrot (and collected it before leaving). So yeah, the difference matters and leaving this open to interpretation aids embellishment and therefore reach. After all, where there's smoke, there's fire: if this gets reported on, it surely can't be the most charitable version of events.

Re: Pfizer Responds to Covid Gain of Function Research Claims

#45
post #43
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your substitution... - passing around butt-plugs and dildos to my students + [giving] out sex toys to kids ...is an example of exactly the kind of transcription error via which controversy ignites into hysteria. If we are to interpret your intent charitably, we must also charitably assume that abstract anatomical models (sex toys) are a useful and valid demonstration tool in the context of sexual health education.

FWIW most dildos aimed at women are not actually "anatomical models" and would not be recognizable if you've never seen one before. Likewise, butt-plugs may sound kinky but they don't look particularly imposing unless you deliberately go for extreme sizes. Also presumably much like condoms often handed out to students in sex ed, it's safe to assume these aren't used . The "leak" deliberately evokes the image of a que…

Several good points of clarification. My own phrasing leaned heavily on "abstract".

Re: Pfizer Responds to Covid Gain of Function Research Claims

#46

„In a limited number of cases when a full virus does not contain any known gain of function mutations, such virus may be engineered to enable the assessment of antiviral activity in cells.“ via https://nitter.net/Tim_Roehn/status/1619281947741806592#m so they practice gain of function. and i bet they don't do that in the us. wasn't there some interesting back and forth about ominous us led bio engineering labs in the…

"It is important to note that these studies are required by U.S. and global regulators for all antiviral products" - i think this bit of the paragraph you highlighted changes the meaning somewhat.

In addition to the fact that pharma tends to write their own regulations, as ren_engineer pointed out, it's ambiguous what "these studies" refers to. It could refer only to the "in vitro resistance selection experiments" mentioned, and not require gain-of-function engineering - a requirement I would find highly surprising.

Re: Pfizer Responds to Covid Gain of Function Research Claims

#47
post #42

So the way I read this statement, they explicitly say state "Pfizer has not conducted gain of function." Then they later admit, " In a limited number of cases when a full virus does not contain any known gain of function mutations, such virus may be engineered to enable the assessment of antiviral activity in cells." (I'm not exactly clear what that means, but it reads like they do gain-of-function to me. I've learne…

Engineering the virus doesn’t mean making gain-of-function mutations. “Function” has a specific meaning and it’s not a synonym for “does anything.” Instead, in broad strokes, think of “function” as referring to biological activities that give the virus some advantage over its host.

To make a simplistic analogy (necessarily imperfect but sufficient for these purposes), consider instead a computer virus. If an antivirus company patches the binary in order to make it easier to study its behavior (for example, in order to make it more debuggable), that’s “engineering” the virus but it’s not “gain-of-function.” If the company instead patches the virus so that it can take advantage of a new 0-day exploit and spread further, that’s “gain-of-function.”

Whether gain-of-function research is capable of revealing new insight into transmissible diseases not obtainable elsewhere is a point of debate among biologists, but one can be well assured that a for-profit operation isn’t going to touch it with a ten-foot pole. Engineering the virus on the other hand, or in other words making mutations in viral components, is basically a description of “doing basic molecular biology” and is non-optional.

The sort of allegation that Pfizer is responding to is more or less the equivalent of someone recording an engineer calling themselves “hackers,” visiting “Hacker News,” then writing an exposé claiming that this proves Company X is in the business of computer crime.

The activity mentioned in the Pfizer press release that skirts closest to “gain-of-function” is actually a bit you didn’t mention at all, where they’re required by regulatory bodies to determine how the virus might resist an antiviral. Unlike computer viruses, biological ones mutate under treatment pressure. The closest analogy for a computer virus might be if it phones home and downloads a new payload to modify its behavior when it detects the presence of some antivirus software. For obvious reasons, studying how a pandemic virus would mutate in response to approved drugs is both necessary and icky, hence why Pfizer discussed its biosecurity measures. The distinction they make (rightly) between this research and a “directed evolution” or “gain-of-function” experiment, is that they’re reading out an answer to the question “Does the virus mutate when we treat with this antiviral drug, and if so, how?”, not culturing viruses iteratively in the presence of drug until they obtain an optimized treatment-resistant virus.

Re: Pfizer Responds to Covid Gain of Function Research Claims

#48
post #31
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like this is always posted whenever Project Veritas comes up. I agree they're mostly finding things for outrage culture and are generally annoying... sometimes they uncover legitimately concerning things though. That said, here's an example of why I dislike this "argument." Joseph Bruno, Dean of Students, Francis W. Parker School: “So, I’ve been the Dean for four years. During Pride -- we do a Pride Week ev…

Your substitution... - passing around butt-plugs and dildos to my students + [giving] out sex toys to kids ...is an example of exactly the kind of transcription error via which controversy ignites into hysteria. If we are to interpret your intent charitably, we must also charitably assume that abstract anatomical models (sex toys) are a useful and valid demonstration tool in the context of sexual health education.

I was actually trying to be _less_ polarizing in my phrasing.

The issue isn't that ppl are under the impression they got to take these items home. The issue is that there is 0 reason on earth for schools to be introducing kids to butt-plugs and passing them around like its show and tell.

Re: Pfizer Responds to Covid Gain of Function Research Claims

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just make sure you have the world media prepared with an appropriate wargame to simulate what would happen if an unrelated coronavirus would start spreading. Give it a boring name like event 201. Since it's all out in the open it's clearly not a conspiracy. Then have the world media present you as the Oracle of Delphi because you had such an accurate prediction.

Doesn’t take a genius to know live animal markets in urban centers are risky and that respiratory viruses can emerge + spread.

Especially if there happens to be an Institute of Virology in close proximity

Re: Pfizer Responds to Covid Gain of Function Research Claims

#50
post #32
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like this is always posted whenever Project Veritas comes up. I agree they're mostly finding things for outrage culture and are generally annoying... sometimes they uncover legitimately concerning things though. That said, here's an example of why I dislike this "argument." Joseph Bruno, Dean of Students, Francis W. Parker School: “So, I’ve been the Dean for four years. During Pride -- we do a Pride Week ev…

I have not watched the video, but I will note that “passing around” can mean “passing around the room [and then taking back].” The linked article says only the toys were “shown.” This is not the same as “[giving] out sex toys to kids.”

>This is not the same as “[giving] out sex toys to kids.”

I consider someone coming in and giving out butt-plugs to kids the same as "giving out sex toys to kids." I don't think anyone was under the impression that they got to take them home, if that's what you're thinking.

I was actually trying to be less polarizing in my phrasing.

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