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Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

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Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#41

That is textbook constructive discharge, a type of wrongful termination. It consists in creating a hostile environment so that you are forced to quit. It is illegal. You have to document everything, create a solid case, then sue the company.

Just to put some details around this. You hire a lawyer, which will cost $2K-$3K. The lawyer helps you document everything. Then when you're ready to leave, the lawyer sends a demand letter to the company - demanding severance pay. The severance is something like 3-6 months of pay to bridge you to find another job. If you're making $100K and get 3 months severance, that's $25K - well worth it financially and for your mental health to find a new job.

EDIT: 1) Don't even need to go to court. 2) It's a nice F-off to the boss because their boss and above will now know what's happening.

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#42
> It makes you realise what crap you will really put up with and how from an impartial viewpoint you should have just "nope'd" out of it years ago but the status-quo is just easier to maintain.

This is so true. In my experience, it can sneak up on you over the course of months and years so you don't realize how depressed and burnt out you are. You don't realize that working late so that you can catch up is something that shouldn't be the norm. When I finally quit and joined a functional software company with clear work/life balance it was an absolute shock. It felt like someone had suddenly turned a light on and I could see everything clear as day.

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#43
Thank you for sharing. This is something I need to remind myself from time to time. I'm not sure if this helps, but I suggest getting into a sport if you can.

A while ago my self-confidence was really low. I tried jiu jitsu, and I had a lot of fun. I was also impressed with the positivity and camaraderie. I started going regularly, and even though I started off much worse at it than everyone else, I was constantly improving a little bit at a time and getting reassurance that the struggle to go from beginner to intermediate and beyond is something everyone experiences.

The act of exercising regularly, combined with improving at something I enjoy and making new friends along the way, was a huge boost to my confidence. Playing a sport has improved my mental health immensely. It is also something in my life I can lean on when my career is rocky or challenging.

I know it can be a lot of commitment for someone with a family, or daunting for someone who is a bit older. With that recognized, I still suggest you try a sport. I have been doing jiu jitsu for five years, and I have also started wrestling and judo. I've trained with people of all ages, from Division 1 college wrestlers, to active hobbyists like me, to parents and grandparents who just want to try something new.

It sounds intense, but it can be adjusted to any age, body type, etc. I've even had the pleasure to practice with a retired, blind champion grappler. She knocked me over again and again, just by feeling. All this to say, if you accept your limitations, there is a way for you to participate safely and have fun.

Regardless if my advice helps, I wish you a lot of luck, and thank you again for sharing.

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#45

I'm there now. The endless cycle of staring at the bedroom ceiling trying to muster the will to get out of bed, the anger at the existencial inertia, the tiny voice inside my head that says "jump" while staring at the abyss. Glad to see you made it out, guess there's still hope out there.

[flagged]

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Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's all relative. To be honest, I would be over the moon to never "work" again. Don't wanna be needed, don't wanna have to report to anyone, don't wanna be part of a pyramid scheme earning some CEO or founder 50% of company payroll. I could very happily set and achieve little goals for the rest of my life -- in video games, education, little creative pursuits, and hobbies -- and never once look back. Really…

I agree with you, but I also feel there is a huge difference between not working and doing nothing at work. The latter is way more draining to me.

Yeah it's the middle area that's a killer.

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#47
The big life lesson I got is: there's no correlation between Fortune 500 companies and good management practice.

As a software engineer, I was never happier than the job I took with a smaller local firm after quitting a 500. The firm paid competitively (no longer getting those sweet Fortune 500 stock options, but who cares the stock market's a crap-shoot anyway and the stock I got from the old company is already past its peak value right now as it is) and my manager was the best I've ever had.

Being in a bad management chain at a major corp can make you miserable. I've found it to be worth it to switch to a smaller corp with a better management chain.

(All of that having been said: smaller companies can be more vulnerable to market disruption so of course sometimes one trades out the stress of bad management with the stress of maybe not having a job in six months. But as Google just demonstrated, working at the big firms isn't really a guarantee there either).

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#48
post #13

Thanks for sharing. > Just doing nothing sounds awesome. It's not. It's crap. Yeah, this is something people don't realize until they're it in. It's not fun. Humans long to be needed. > but I didn't have the courage to jump This is one of those things I personally have trouble wrapping my head around, but I know it happens. Kudos for getting it done.

My days at work where I'm actively engaged in a task and feel like I got something done fly by, whereas the days where I have nothing to do and I'm refreshing HN all day are not only boring but draining. Ironic that doing nothing makes you feel like you have no energy at the end of the day.

If you have something to do the job is worthwhile. If its busywork, at least you get paid. If you don't have either of those things, the boss/work is not worth anyone's time, you're better of taking training and quitting.

Meanwhile hopefully the market/regulation sorts itself, and your boss loses his job, because someone does something worthwhile elsewhere.

Re: Tell HN: Sometimes you don't realise how bad something is until you leave

#49
post #14

This resonates. In April I'll be starting a new job and the amount of clarity that gives with my current job is eye-opening. I'll be earning less, yet I'll gladly leave a situation where not a lot of persons have a clue what our industry means let alone our specific domain.

Good luck to you!
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