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Saudi prosecutors seek death penalty for academic over social media use

theguardian.com

41–50 of 56 posts

Re: Saudi prosecutors seek death penalty for academic over social media use

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it was spraying graffiti, at least that's actually bad and universally recognized as a crime, so it was just a really disproportionate punishment for it. Posting on social media isn't supposed to be a crime at all.

it's very widely recognized as an art form, and it's not necessarily bad at all.

Graffiti is only a legitimate art form when it's done with the permission of the owner of the thing being painted. It's pure vandalism otherwise.

Re: Saudi prosecutors seek death penalty for academic over social media use

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it was spraying graffiti, at least that's actually bad and universally recognized as a crime, so it was just a really disproportionate punishment for it. Posting on social media isn't supposed to be a crime at all.

The crime is not the post. The crime is the statement contained in the post. Who told you that online statements were not crimes? They are exactly as much a crime as a statement in a newspaper or on tv.

Hence why I used the qualifiers "universally recognized" and "supposed to be".

Re: Saudi prosecutors seek death penalty for academic over social media use

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anymore, certainly not since MBS arrived. Its getting closer and closer to Dubai there.

Faint praise.

I really didn't mean it as praise, but I can see how one might read it as such.

Re: Saudi prosecutors seek death penalty for academic over social media use

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anymore, certainly not since MBS arrived. Its getting closer and closer to Dubai there.

AFAICT, MBS himself is not a religious extremist, just a power-hungry tyrant who doesn't tolerate dissent. There's a difference. The dynamic has long been that the royals running the place are much more liberal than the Wahhabis who enforce the religion, and have slowly been trying to liberalize things. It's another great example of why democracy isn't some kind of silver bullet that will magically make populations a…

> If Saudi Arabia lost its monarchy and became democratic, it'd be even worse than it is now.

Worse for you, but better for its citizens, which is the whole point of Democracy.

Its not democracy only when the west likes it.

And the average person there isn't as extreme as you think.

Re: Saudi prosecutors seek death penalty for academic over social media use

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT, MBS himself is not a religious extremist, just a power-hungry tyrant who doesn't tolerate dissent. There's a difference. The dynamic has long been that the royals running the place are much more liberal than the Wahhabis who enforce the religion, and have slowly been trying to liberalize things. It's another great example of why democracy isn't some kind of silver bullet that will magically make populations a…

> If Saudi Arabia lost its monarchy and became democratic, it'd be even worse than it is now. Worse for you, but better for its citizens, which is the whole point of Democracy. Its not democracy only when the west likes it. And the average person there isn't as extreme as you think.

>Worse for you, but better for its citizens, which is the whole point of Democracy.

Of course, I meant "worse" from a Western liberal point-of-view, which I would think should be obvious here.

My whole point there is that Western liberals seem to usually think that if people in oppressive regimes only had democratic governments, then they'd magically turn into countries like Norway. So they try installing democratic governments in places like Afghanistan and then are shocked when these countries don't turn into clones of liberal Western democracies.

Re: Saudi prosecutors seek death penalty for academic over social media use

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Canada” here being a quasi-governmental professional organization tasked with ensuring the safety of patients and professionalism of practitioners. Not remotely the same as the government-proper arresting him and threatening him with death.

If the government passes a law saying "you can only be a psychologist if you have a license from the College of Psychologists", and the College of Psychologists will only let you have a license if you go to a re-education camp, why should we look upon that any differently than if the government passes a law saying "you can only be a psychologist if you go to a re-education camp" directly? If you choose to delegate yo…

Re-education camp is Jordan’s words. As far as I’ve seen, it doesn’t appear in the correspondence from the professional group.

Re: Saudi prosecutors seek death penalty for academic over social media use

#47

A long time ago, some Jewish coworkers told me about Saudi Arabia as very extreme (a lot of frank discussions about Israel’s issues, Palestinians, and the middle east). Naive as I was, I didn’t believe them at the time but time has proven them right.

It's a bit more complicated than that. MBS throwing the book at dissenters have very little to do with Palestine or Israel, and very much to do with MBS's increasing personal paranoia and lack of tolerance for even the mildest form of dissent. There are people getting jailed for completely non-political dissent like daring to advocate for female drivers before the government itself made a policy U-turn on that. https…

His level of violence is the only distinction between MBS, Tayipp, and the rest of the islamic ethnostates. Otherwise everything else is true in every muslim nation from Indonesia to Albania.

Re: Saudi prosecutors seek death penalty for academic over social media use

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Saudi Arabia lost its monarchy and became democratic, it'd be even worse than it is now. Worse for you, but better for its citizens, which is the whole point of Democracy. Its not democracy only when the west likes it. And the average person there isn't as extreme as you think.

>Worse for you, but better for its citizens, which is the whole point of Democracy. Of course, I meant "worse" from a Western liberal point-of-view, which I would think should be obvious here. My whole point there is that Western liberals seem to usually think that if people in oppressive regimes only had democratic governments, then they'd magically turn into countries like Norway. So they try installing democratic…

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Re: Saudi prosecutors seek death penalty for academic over social media use

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Worse for you, but better for its citizens, which is the whole point of Democracy. Of course, I meant "worse" from a Western liberal point-of-view, which I would think should be obvious here. My whole point there is that Western liberals seem to usually think that if people in oppressive regimes only had democratic governments, then they'd magically turn into countries like Norway. So they try installing democratic…

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