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The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

nytimes.com

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Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#41

Post by hesdeadjim »

shareme wrote: post #31
cppsnob wrote: post #28

If I remember the numbers, leading up to the WP7 launch, MS dropped roughly 100 million on marketing. They sold less than 100,000 units on launch week. Whatever the exact numbers, I remember someone pointing out it would have been more cost effective to give the phones away for the launch. It's still that way today. They have no mindshare of the public at large, nor the developers, nor the carriers, nor the handset m…

no no no..a game developers do not use the same exact code for both iOs and Android..as the app life-cycle and other things are different enough that its a full port..especially when you consider that the UI is 70% of the code

Yea no. Now that the NDK is somewhat decent, 95% of the code we write for a game is shared between iOS and Android. We have our own GUI layer as well because it was a cost effective choice when compared to the option of re-writing our UI for each platform for each game. The parent is very correct as well, lack of native code support is a HUGE problem if they expect to get a rich ecosystem of games for their smartphone platform.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#42

Post by bmajz »

petervandijck wrote: post #20
nirvdrum wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it any different than hiring from outside, where ostensibly you're trying to hire people to make the team better?

You kill the magic of a successful team if you spread them out. If a team works great together, you should keep them together. The team dynamics are a lot of that success.

Sometimes, it really does help though. The team running Windows 7 and now Windows 8 was the core of Office (Steven Sinofsky, Julie Larson-Green, Jon DeVaan). They really helped shake off the engineering problems during the Vista timeframe and enabled a really cool, successful product in Windows 7. Same with Terry Myerson (mentioned in this article) and his success first with Exchange and now Windows Phone.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#43

Post by bmajz »

hugh4life wrote: post #34
cppsnob wrote: post #28

If I remember the numbers, leading up to the WP7 launch, MS dropped roughly 100 million on marketing. They sold less than 100,000 units on launch week. Whatever the exact numbers, I remember someone pointing out it would have been more cost effective to give the phones away for the launch. It's still that way today. They have no mindshare of the public at large, nor the developers, nor the carriers, nor the handset m…

BTW, you're right... the biggest thing keeping Windows Phone 7 back is a C++ development option. They could also benefit the platform a lot by either backing MonoTouch/MonoDroid hard or come out with their own way of running .Net on those platforms. Oracle has already ported Java ME's JVM to both iOS and Android for running JavaFX applications. http://drdobbs.com/blogs/jvm/231900029

That might help with games that really need to eke out performance, but there are a lot of simpler apps that could be enabled and aren't there yet. Things like Mint or TaskRabbit for example, likely would not use native code. Seems to me like the major issue holding developers back is not the lack of tools, but rather the flat adoption rates.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#44

Post by gbog »

anothermachine wrote: post #15
emmelaich wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Some android phones (like mine) have facebook and twitter apps that cannot be uninstalled, too. Presumably by my mobile network company, not the manufacturer. I've never used them, but they do annoy with occasional update requests. Will put Cyanogen on the phone soon enough though.

Facebook and Twitter (and Amazon MP3) are installed by HTC/Google on the carrier-independent Nexus One, at least. Cyanogenmod solves that problem (but introduces others, like failure to sleep properly => battery drain)

I don't have the cm problem you are talking about. Moreover, it is a fixable bug, not a feature like Facebook app installed by default. You are comparing apples and bananas.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#45

Post by cppsnob »

shareme wrote: post #31
cppsnob wrote: post #28

If I remember the numbers, leading up to the WP7 launch, MS dropped roughly 100 million on marketing. They sold less than 100,000 units on launch week. Whatever the exact numbers, I remember someone pointing out it would have been more cost effective to give the phones away for the launch. It's still that way today. They have no mindshare of the public at large, nor the developers, nor the carriers, nor the handset m…

no no no..a game developers do not use the same exact code for both iOs and Android..as the app life-cycle and other things are different enough that its a full port..especially when you consider that the UI is 70% of the code

UI code should be in the same portable OpenGL that the rest of your game is in.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#46

Post by hugh4life »

bmajz wrote: post #43
hugh4life wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, you're right... the biggest thing keeping Windows Phone 7 back is a C++ development option. They could also benefit the platform a lot by either backing MonoTouch/MonoDroid hard or come out with their own way of running .Net on those platforms. Oracle has already ported Java ME's JVM to both iOS and Android for running JavaFX applications. http://drdobbs.com/blogs/jvm/231900029

That might help with games that really need to eke out performance, but there are a lot of simpler apps that could be enabled and aren't there yet. Things like Mint or TaskRabbit for example, likely would not use native code. Seems to me like the major issue holding developers back is not the lack of tools, but rather the flat adoption rates.

"Seems to me like the major issue holding developers back is not the lack of tools, but rather the flat adoption rates."

Well, there's a chicken an egg problem here. Microsoft will have flat adoption rates as long as they're in 3rd(or worse) place and they don't make it easier to target their afterthought of a platform with code used to target iOS and android... or vice versa.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#48

Post by freehunter »

d4nt wrote: post #14

This is good news for Microsoft, and I really do hope they do well, but there's still a mountain to climb: tech reviewers are not the same as normal consumers and impressing them for the limited period of time it takes to write a review does not necessarily translate onto having a successful product. Here are a few challenges Microsoft still face: 1. Getting the mobile networks to take handsets running Windows Phone.…

  The UX must be consistently slick
This point is useless, the entire number 4 in your post. First of all, if you're using it as a point, you've never used a Windows Phone. It's as stable as an iPhone (certainly moreso than Android), I've had one since April and have never had a crash, lockup, or misplaced UI element. You seem to be bringing that from Windows Mobile, which is hands down the biggest thing holding Windows Phone back right now. Technical people who cannot and will not distinguish between it and its unrelated predecessor.

This argument pisses me off because it's completely unfounded, yet I constantly hear people saying "Well, I have my doubts since it's a Microsoft product" without ever using it. The biggest hurdle to Windows Phone 7 is ignorant techies casting misinformation to the general consumer just because bashing Microsoft is a fun talking point.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#49

Post by akarambir »

SODaniel wrote: post #35

The new Nokia handsets carrying Windows Mobile 7.5 are nothing short of spectacular! I LOVE mine and it has quickly replaced iPhone and Android handset for me. I can't wait for Windows 8 and mobile integration myself and feel that picking up some MSFT stock might be very wise for the coming years.

I've read these exact lines before. Do you work for Microsoft?

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#50

Post by potatolicious »

cppsnob wrote: post #28

If I remember the numbers, leading up to the WP7 launch, MS dropped roughly 100 million on marketing. They sold less than 100,000 units on launch week. Whatever the exact numbers, I remember someone pointing out it would have been more cost effective to give the phones away for the launch. It's still that way today. They have no mindshare of the public at large, nor the developers, nor the carriers, nor the handset m…

> "MS dropped roughly 100 million on marketing. They sold less than 100,000 units on launch week."

And I'm wondering how anyone in MS marketing is still employed. You just blew $100m on promoting a product and sell 100K units - how are you not fired? (out of a cannon)

Where did all of that money go? I remember seeing a single TV ad at WP7's launch, and nothing more. In comparison, Verizon practically plastered my local transit system in Droid ads for that launch, and guess what, people were talking about it.

Between Seinfeld and this, I'm not sure why there hasn't been a complete and thorough house-cleaning in MSFT's marketing department.

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