New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving • Hacker News Board

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#41

Post by Animats » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 2:04 AM UTC

Is there enough info yet to know if the lane change was initiated automatically? That's apparently possible. Tesla support site:

Auto Lane Change

To initiate an automated lane change, you must first enable Auto Lane Changes through the Autopilot Controls menu within the Settings tab. Then when the car is in Autosteer, a driver must engage the turn signal in the direction that they would like to move. In some markets depending on local regulations, lane change confirmation can be turned off by accessing Controls > Autopilot > Customize Navigate on Autopilot and toggle ‘Lane Change Confirmation’ off.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#42

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 2:05 AM UTC

leot wrote: post #7

Cars fail and need to pull over regularly. It's hard to understand why this particular incident is all that notable.

[deleted]

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#43

Post by MBCook » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 2:05 AM UTC

BoorishBears wrote: post #30

calvinmorrison wrote: post #9

[flagged]

If it wasn't a Tesla the driver would probably be sitting in jail right now for intentionally causing a wreck. But because Tesla's pretend attempt at self-driving engaged in the reckless driving, the driver is protected despite clearly not reacting in anything even slightly resembling a timely manner. Disclaimer: I work in the AV space... but no one in the space should consider Tesla a competitor.

The best defense of Tesla I’ve seen for this accident was “maybe it wasn’t FSD, it was a cause-a-rear-end insurance scam gone wrong”.

That’s a REALLY bad look if that’s the other plausible explanation.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#44

Post by gundmc » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 2:06 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #41

Is there enough info yet to know if the lane change was initiated automatically? That's apparently possible. Tesla support site: Auto Lane Change To initiate an automated lane change, you must first enable Auto Lane Changes through the Autopilot Controls menu within the Settings tab. Then when the car is in Autosteer, a driver must engage the turn signal in the direction that they would like to move. In some markets…

I believe the car was in "Full Self Driving" and not "Autopilot"?

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#45

Post by zoklet-enjoyer » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 2:06 AM UTC

herodotus wrote: post #2

I have a VW Golf and it has what it calls "adaptive cruise control". What makes it different from my older (simple) cruise control is that it will slow down and speed up again as necessary without my intervention. For example, if I set the speed to 70 mph and it gets close to a car ahead that is only going 65 mph, it will slow down and maintain what the software believes is a safe distance. Similarly, if a car in an…

I have adaptive cruise control on my Subaru Impreza and I love it. I use it on trips around town and on long road trips and it's great. I will never buy another car that doesn't have this feature.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#46

Post by whiddershins » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 2:06 AM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #37

marktolson wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend was using adaptive cruise control while towing a caravan. A car merged in front of him, his car applied heavy braking to maintain the desired distance (not necessarily to avoid a crash) but didn't compensate for the weight of the caravan. Almost lost traction, lead to heavy swerving. He's vowed to never use it again.

Doesn't his car have ABS? Even under heavy braking, the car's wheels shouldn't lock up and lead to swerving. Did the trailer have its own brakes?

I believe you are thinking of skidding, not swerving.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#47

Post by Rebelgecko » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 2:06 AM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #37

marktolson wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend was using adaptive cruise control while towing a caravan. A car merged in front of him, his car applied heavy braking to maintain the desired distance (not necessarily to avoid a crash) but didn't compensate for the weight of the caravan. Almost lost traction, lead to heavy swerving. He's vowed to never use it again.

Doesn't his car have ABS? Even under heavy braking, the car's wheels shouldn't lock up and lead to swerving. Did the trailer have its own brakes?

Does ABS help if the car is braking faster than the trailer?

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#48

Post by Johnny555 » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 2:07 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #6

loopdoend wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you just tap the brake to disengage adaptive cruise?

The problem isn't that disengaging the system is difficult. The problem is that deciding whether to disengage is difficult. If you're catching up to a slower car, maybe you should disengage the cruise control. Or maybe you shouldn't. You can't tell. This means that cruise control goes from being something that relieves stress on you to something that causes additional stress.

My car (Honda) tells me when it sees a car in front of me, I assume that if there's a car in front, the ACC will slow down accordingly, and so far, it always has.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#49

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 2:07 AM UTC

epivosism wrote: post #35

The question that is never answered in this kind of story is: 1. How many fatalities per mile does tesla FSD have, compared to its best alternative if we ban it? 2. Focusing on specific failure cases is not relevant since the political decision to allow it is all or nothing. 3. It'd be perfectly logical to accept road testing FSD, even if it's significantly worse in some areas, as long as this is not exploitable, AND…

[deleted]

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#50

Post by remarkEon » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 2:07 AM UTC

epivosism wrote: post #35

The question that is never answered in this kind of story is: 1. How many fatalities per mile does tesla FSD have, compared to its best alternative if we ban it? 2. Focusing on specific failure cases is not relevant since the political decision to allow it is all or nothing. 3. It'd be perfectly logical to accept road testing FSD, even if it's significantly worse in some areas, as long as this is not exploitable, AND…

Other people have said it before, but the issue is that the Tesla crashes we are seeing are ones that a human would trivially avoid.

Most people, especially non technical people, aren’t going to care about numbers that say it’s safer or better on net when the car still occasionally does things that humans view as crazy or stupid.