Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease • Hacker News Board

Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease

#41

Post by aamar » Thu, Jan 05, 2012, 7:56 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #38

gnaritas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country. Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath.

"Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country." You just need enough other people's money. "Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath." Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Our system isn't perfect and is expensive, but in my opinion, it's the best in the world (…

Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care.

Many of the inbound medical tourists to the U.S. are coming from countries that don't have nationalized health care or are coming because their nationalized health care system is paying most of the cost of their care and trip. Relatively few are buying their way into better care vs. a nationalized health system.

Also, the number of inbound U.S. medical tourists is around 70,000[1], while the number of outbound U.S. medical tourists is around 650,000[2] (surgery dominates). There are many factors involved here, but as a basic matter, it would be simpler to say that people leave the U.S. for medical care much more than they visit for it.

[1] 2008 number: http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/25/health-hospitals-care-forbe...

[2] 2009 number: http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/article1079824.ece

Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease

#42

Post by rokhayakebe » Thu, Jan 05, 2012, 8:03 PM UTC

giberson wrote: post #5

Hate to raise a cynical tone, but in all likelihood his his longevity is mostly due to him having money. I expect, that in most cases patients with similar motor neurone diseases, their money simply runs out--unable to afford ongoing medications, care and new treatments, they die from the disease they simply can't afford to treat.

his longevity is mostly due to him having money

You are mostly wrong. It is due to his will to live. Even if I could afford it, I know I do not have the mental strength to go through a life in such situation.

Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease

#43

Post by wisty » Thu, Jan 05, 2012, 8:11 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #38

gnaritas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country. Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath.

"Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country." You just need enough other people's money. "Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath." Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Our system isn't perfect and is expensive, but in my opinion, it's the best in the world (…

North Koreans think their country is the best too.

The US health system sucks. The US spends more public money on health, let alone private money, and still has a crappy system.

The reality is, medicine is something that any idiot can manage. Get a doctor and some nurses, put them in a clean building, and give them a few million to buy machines and stocks. Even the government can do it, and the government does it at a lower price, because they aren't looking to rip off desperate people. There's huge barriers to entry (regulatory issues, deals with insurers, no way to boot strap unless you are a doctor), but it's not all rocket science. No-one competes on value (i.e. quality of life over price) - not many people shop to find the cheapest hospital (it's too hard and confusing), they just go on vague stuff like how nice the lobby looks. You won't lose much if the government replaces pretty private lobbys with Stalinist admissions rooms, and tells doctors to look after the patients rather than con them into expensive, unnecessary, and sometimes risky procedures.

Unless you believe that competition lowers price to the marginal cost of supply (which is pure fantasy cooked up by economists, and is completely at odds with how business actually run), or you think that the management of hospitals needs innovative techniques, then there's no reason not to have public health.

Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease

#44

Post by parfe » Thu, Jan 05, 2012, 8:19 PM UTC

rmc wrote: post #40

paulhauggis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country." You just need enough other people's money. "Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath." Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Our system isn't perfect and is expensive, but in my opinion, it's the best in the world (…

Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? Do they? Here in Ireland people going for specialized treatment would go to private hospitals in the UK.

Nope! Whenever you see an American ignorantly claiming the US as #1 in something you can safely chalk it up to American Exceptionalism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

It's a neat little ideal that helps people assert we, as Americans, are intrinsically better than everyone else, by fiat.

It avoids all the hassle of constantly working to live up to our own ideals, or expending any effort to improve ourselves as a nation. Also people holding that mindset generally learn much further right/conservative than the average American. And keep in mind America has two parties, Moderate Right and Extreme Right. We have no left wing to speak of, when compared to European politics.

Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease

#45

Post by lutorm » Thu, Jan 05, 2012, 8:24 PM UTC

robin_reala wrote: post #22

harold wrote: post #2

I've often wondered if his sense of purpose, and ability to continue working are what have contributed to his longevity. Certainly inspiring to see what he has accomplished in his lifetime so far.

My dad died of MND in 2003 after a fairly short length of time, somewhere in the region of 3.5 years after diagnosis. I put Dr Hawking’s longevity at least partially to being happy to work completely in his brain. Conversely, my dad was a very phsyical person and always had some project to build on the go. When that was taken away from him he seemed diminished. Incidentally, he did try to carry on coding using Dragon…

I completed a large fraction of my thesis by speech, including coding and LaTeX. While there are tools to help with coding (there used to be many knowledgeable people at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VoiceCoder/, but I'm not up to date since my condition has improved) I wouldn't want to wish it on my worst enemy. I'm amazed that Hawking has te patience to function like that, he must be an extremely driven individual.

Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease

#46

Post by sukuriant » Thu, Jan 05, 2012, 8:27 PM UTC

helmut_hed wrote: post #27

As a native South Carolinian, I encourage everyone to read the comments on the original article, and compare them in tone, content, and relevance to those posted on HN.

Expound upon that.

Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease

#47

Post by pyre » Thu, Jan 05, 2012, 8:30 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #38

gnaritas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country. Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath.

"Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country." You just need enough other people's money. "Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath." Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Our system isn't perfect and is expensive, but in my opinion, it's the best in the world (…

  > Our system

"Our system" is a hodgepodge of different systems. We've got regular system that most people are on (private hospitals, private insurance). We've got MediCare (private hospitals, public insurance). And we've got the veterans system (public hospitals, public insurance).

If a medical care system that even touches public money is so bad, then why do we have systems like that? Why is 'socialism' some sort of political hot-potato when we have so many current social programs that no one wants to give up that qualify as 'socialism?'

Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease

#48

Post by lancewiggs » Thu, Jan 05, 2012, 8:44 PM UTC

aamar wrote: post #41

paulhauggis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country." You just need enough other people's money. "Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath." Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Our system isn't perfect and is expensive, but in my opinion, it's the best in the world (…

Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Many of the inbound medical tourists to the U.S. are coming from countries that don't have nationalized health care or are coming because their nationalized health care system is paying most of the cost of their care and trip. Relatively few are buying their way in…

Anecdotally the USA has, amongst all the rest of it, some of the world's elite health institutions. The global wealthy can choose from a select few clinics doing leading edge research-oriented treatment to use in selected fields (e.g. some cancers).

Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease

#49

Post by blntechie » Thu, Jan 05, 2012, 9:10 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #38

gnaritas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country. Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath.

"Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country." You just need enough other people's money. "Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath." Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Our system isn't perfect and is expensive, but in my opinion, it's the best in the world (…

America has one of the best health care facilities and best doctors in the world, NOT the system.

This is not a correct analogy but for sake of popular opinion, American health care is like Apple products providing good return for the money you spent but the money spent is too damn high compared to others.

Fortunately, there are lot of better models elsewhere to follow and America is not a shining beacon of health care system in the world.

Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease

#50

Post by roc » Thu, Jan 05, 2012, 9:15 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #47

paulhauggis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yea, you don't need money to be healthy in a civilized country." You just need enough other people's money. "Someday, America might catch on, but I'm not holding my breath." Why is it that anyone with any kind of money that needs urgent care comes to the US? I will give you a hint: it's not because of nationalized health care. Our system isn't perfect and is expensive, but in my opinion, it's the best in the world (…

> Our system "Our system" is a hodgepodge of different systems. We've got regular system that most people are on (private hospitals, private insurance). We've got MediCare (private hospitals, public insurance). And we've got the veterans system (public hospitals, public insurance). If a medical care system that even touches public money is so bad, then why do we have systems like that? Why is 'socialism' some sort of…

Because rhetoric has nothing to do with truth. We soaked generations of Americans in the idea that 'socialism' = 'communism' = 'Russia' and 'China' = 'The Bad Guys'. That creates emotional responses on part of a large segment of the population whenever you assert something is "socialist" and good luck trying to reason with someone in the middle of an emotional response.

So convincing the voting public that something is "socialism" skews public support, and thereby the inevitable compromise, more toward your private benefactors.

The disconnect between rhetoric and objective reality is how we've managed to create a society where people at Tea Party rallies can emphatically demand that the very government that can do no right and needs to be largely dismantled in their eyes, needs to leave their social security, medicare and military alone.