Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Netflix has job with almost $1M listed salary range, to comply with new CA law

jobs.netflix.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 117 posts

Re: Netflix has job with almost $1M listed salary range, to comply with new CA law

#41

Post by advisedwang »

the_shivers wrote: post #5

Is there really nothing in the law preventing companies from doing things like this? Could they say something even more absurd like $1-$1,000,000?

Pay scale is defined as:

> the salary or hourly wage range that the employer reasonably expects to pay for the position.

This posting likely violates it as the position specifies a level and at that specific level that whole range is not reasonable.

However enforcement requires a complaint:

> 432.3. (d) (1) A person who claims to be aggrieved by a violation of this section may file a written complaint with the Labor Commissioner within one year after the date the person learned of the violation. The complaint shall state the name and address of the employer and shall provide a detailed account of the alleged violation, as may be required by the Labor Commissioner.

and the fines aren't large.

> (4) Upon finding that an employer has violated this section, the Labor Commissioner may order the employer to pay a civil penalty of no less than one hundred dollars ($100) and no more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000) per violation. The Labor Commissioner shall determine the amount of the penalty based on the totality of the circumstances, including, but not limited to, whether the employer has previously violated this section. For a first violation of subdivision (c), no penalty shall be assessed upon demonstration by the employer that all job postings for open positions have been updated to include the pay scale as required by this section.

Although there's also the possibility of getting a court order to get them to fix it:

> (2) A person who claims to be aggrieved by a violation of this section may also bring a civil action for injunctive relief and any other relief that the court deems appropriate.

ref: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...

Re: Netflix has job with almost $1M listed salary range, to comply with new CA law

#42

Post by tony_cannistra »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #24
tony_cannistra wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right but I think you're missing the point. Offering a range that broad in the job listing is just an effort to flaunt a law. That law was put into place to help the people you're talking about.

Or they're complying in good faith. They may very well be flexible and not really care if they hire a fresh out of school grad or a seasoned expert with a rockstar resume. They'll hire either and pay accordingly.

Maybe, but I don't buy that a FAANG would hire a fresh-out-of-school grad at L5 with a $90k salary.

Re: Netflix has job with almost $1M listed salary range, to comply with new CA law

#43

Post by t-writescode »

lovecg wrote: post #33
t-writescode wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the law? No; but, this is the sort of thing that people who care about equality in pay should look at and refuse to work at. If there can be an 800k difference between two different employees with the same title that sit next to each other, that's not a place I would want to work for and wouldn't even apply.

I strongly suspect no place would pay 800k otherwise. The reality is these companies cannot simply have 800k positions with well defined criteria - these compensation levels are reserved for people that would be especially painful to replace, and the criteria are rarely cut and dry. You could come up with a bigger hammer to prevent these practices, but in the end the exceptional employees are the only ones to lose -…

> these compensation levels are reserved for people that would be especially painful to replace, and the criteria are rarely cut and dry.

So they'd be more like the "fellow" position at other companies, then, yes? Or the senior staff engineers?

The problem isn't the 900k, the problem is the 90-900k range. You can hide a lot of evil in a range that wide. You can hide gender and ethnic pay biases in that range.

a 500-750k range for Principal engineers or 500k to 2MM range for "Senior Staff Engineers" makes more sense than 90k to 900k.

Re: Netflix has job with almost $1M listed salary range, to comply with new CA law

#44

Post by remote_phone »

A lot of people responding on here don’t seem to understand that $900k/yr is a very real salary at Netflix. They pay top of the market and it’s all in cash.

The pressure is very real and lots of people get fired quickly (a PM I worked with said she saw over 20 engineers let go in the 2 years she was there) but I find that the ones that stay at Netflix for a long time love it and are never worried about being fired.

Re: Netflix has job with almost $1M listed salary range, to comply with new CA law

#45

Post by [deleted] »

t-writescode wrote: post #12
the_shivers wrote: post #5

Is there really nothing in the law preventing companies from doing things like this? Could they say something even more absurd like $1-$1,000,000?

In the law? No; but, this is the sort of thing that people who care about equality in pay should look at and refuse to work at. If there can be an 800k difference between two different employees with the same title that sit next to each other, that's not a place I would want to work for and wouldn't even apply.

[deleted]

Re: Netflix has job with almost $1M listed salary range, to comply with new CA law

#46

Post by dymk »

endisneigh wrote: post #8

Unsurprising. The ca law unfortunately isn’t robust enough. Standard deviation and inter quartile range is necessary in order to make any real assessment here. Ideally mean and median too.

Why? Let the market figure it out. If people don't like what Netflix is doing, then they won't apply for the job.

Re: Netflix has job with almost $1M listed salary range, to comply with new CA law

#47

Post by canonica »

I'm shocked about their questions on their job application form! It's considered illegal to ask those questions in my country because they can be used for discrimination. Is this normal practice in the US?

> What gender identity do you most closely identify with?

> Are you a person of transgender experience?

> Please select the race and/or ethnic identities you identify with

> What sexual orientation do you most closely identify with?

> Do you live with a disability (as outlined by the ADA)?

Re: Netflix has job with almost $1M listed salary range, to comply with new CA law

#48

Post by dragonwriter »

endisneigh wrote: post #8

Unsurprising. The ca law unfortunately isn’t robust enough. Standard deviation and inter quartile range is necessary in order to make any real assessment here. Ideally mean and median too.

> The ca law unfortunately isn’t robust enough

Maybe, though Netflix just seems to just be blatantly violating the law, and the probably-unreasonable width of the range isn’t the most bright-line way. (Explicitly using total compensation instead of the mandatory salary or hourly wage is.)

Re: Netflix has job with almost $1M listed salary range, to comply with new CA law

#49

Post by andrewmutz »

dragonwriter wrote: post #38

This clearly does not comply with the law [0]. The listed range is based on total comp which it justifies with an appeal to Netflix’s “compensation philosophy”; the law, however, specifically defines the “pay scale” that must accompany a posting as being the “the salary or hourly wage range that the employer reasonably expects to pay for the position” [1], not total compensation, and the law does not include an excep…

Why do you think this is not cash comp? Friends at Netflix have told me employees get to choose the balance of cash/equity, and an employee can choose all cash.

Re: Netflix has job with almost $1M listed salary range, to comply with new CA law

#50

Post by JumpCrisscross »

t-writescode wrote: post #12
the_shivers wrote: post #5

Is there really nothing in the law preventing companies from doing things like this? Could they say something even more absurd like $1-$1,000,000?

In the law? No; but, this is the sort of thing that people who care about equality in pay should look at and refuse to work at. If there can be an 800k difference between two different employees with the same title that sit next to each other, that's not a place I would want to work for and wouldn't even apply.

> an 800k difference between two different employees with the same title

Nothing wrong with this. I personally find titles annoying, compensation ceilings based on titles moreso, so this would seem a decent culture filter. (I also like working with teams and seeing colleagues as, if not necessarily friends, very close acquaintances, so Netflix wouldn’t be a fit.)

Post reply on HN