What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle? • Hacker News Board

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#41

Post by kube-system » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 10:44 PM UTC

Jorengarenar wrote: post #33

haunter wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Wikipedia page about a technological topic (so not a person, place etc) has a very few languages available (in this case 2) then it always makes me wonder how other countries in the World solve the same issue. This seems like a very US thing for example but maybe I’m wrong

Until now, I wasn't aware USA makes highways with concrete. As far as I know, in Poland vast majority of paved roads is made with asphalt, rarely bricks.

It depends on the use. Both asphalt and concrete are widely used in the US, depending on the engineering demands.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#42

Post by nemo44x » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 10:44 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #10

bombcar wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US interstate moves insane numbers of huge ass-trucks that weight one billion metric pounds each or something. Anything less than airport-grade concrete dies instantly, and then dies again when it invariably freezes to -40° Kelvin, because fuck physics when shit gets cold.

The reason for the interstate trucks is the taxation system that punishes railroads for owning their right-of-way. The trucks cause by far the most damage to the highways, but taxpayers subsidize that with the gas tax. Trucks also do not pay property tax on the highways. Long haul freight should be done by loading the semi's trailer onto a flat car, and picking it up near the destination. Another myopic government de…

The USA has possibly the best freight rail system in the world and it’s used extensively. Trucks pay a ton of tolls, licenses, and fuel tax.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#43

Post by nemo44x » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 10:46 PM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #25

engineer_22 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trucks pay much higher tolls. Tolls are based on axles and weight.

But not nearly higher enough. Driving on roads damages them in proportion to the fourth power of per-axle weight, which is about 17,000lbs for a fully loaded semi and 2,000lbs for a car. To put that in perspective, if the toll for the car were $0.25, it'd have to be over $1,300 for the truck for it to be fair in that sense.

It will just raise shipping costs and therefore raise the cost of goods. By charging trucks more it creates a regressive tax effectively. By subsidizing them this is a way we utilize socialism to ensure lower wage people have access.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#44

Post by rootusrootus » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 10:46 PM UTC

idatum wrote: post #35

Only slightly related, about I-90 generally: A parent of mine who grew up and lived most of their life on the East Coast, US, visited and we drove east across WA. At one point they could not wrap their head around the fact that we had been travelling at around 80 mph for 2 hours. And it basically looked the same out the window :) The US West is huge.

There are a number of areas out in eastern Washington where the state patrol doesn't often bother with speed enforcement and people routinely go even faster. It is common to have packs of cars going up the left lane over Manastash Ridge at closer to 100 mph. With a closure rate of about 70 mph on the trucks in the right lane. One way to make an otherwise monotonous drive more interesting.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#45

Post by voidfunc » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 10:48 PM UTC

Jorengarenar wrote: post #33

haunter wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Wikipedia page about a technological topic (so not a person, place etc) has a very few languages available (in this case 2) then it always makes me wonder how other countries in the World solve the same issue. This seems like a very US thing for example but maybe I’m wrong

Until now, I wasn't aware USA makes highways with concrete. As far as I know, in Poland vast majority of paved roads is made with asphalt, rarely bricks.

Depends where in the USA you are. Most of the Northeast is asphalt.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#46

Post by rootusrootus » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 10:48 PM UTC

mbauman wrote: post #3

A little funny to not link to the comment that had the answer — they're dowel bar retrofits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowel_bar_retrofit

That's interesting, I'd never have guessed. They always seem to be just the right lane, so I figured there must be some other explanation.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#47

Post by rootusrootus » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 10:51 PM UTC

wkat4242 wrote: post #17

haunter wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Wikipedia page about a technological topic (so not a person, place etc) has a very few languages available (in this case 2) then it always makes me wonder how other countries in the World solve the same issue. This seems like a very US thing for example but maybe I’m wrong

In the Netherlands we don't use concrete plates. Just asphalt, usually the highly absorbent type. It wears very quickly and ice buildup damages it so it gets replaced a lot. But this is the advantage of a small country with many people. Good infrastructure.

In the PNW we commonly use porous asphalt (so the rain doesn't build up and cause hydroplaning) as well. A few interstates still use concrete. I wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with weather and related maintenance requirements. I-90 being a pretty good example.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#48

Post by LegitShady » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 10:51 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #13

frosted-flakes wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, I'm always impressed by how smooth the ashpalt highways in Toronto are, even though they are spiderwebbed with cracks absolutely everywhere. That's because the cracks are filled each spring with some sort of sealant. They make a regular slapping sound as the tires pass over them, but cannot be felt.

I don’t think you could do the repair with asphalt. I’m not even sure I’ve ever driven on a concrete road, as down here in New Zealand there aren’t any I don’t think. The current repair practice is to pour tar on the asphalt road and then a coating of road gravel. It’s noisey, comes off when heavy vehicles use it, comes off with heavy usage or heavy breaking, comes off in hot sun and it’s utter trash. It’s cheap thou…

you are describing an asphalt microseal over the entire road surface. they are describing sealing of cracks using asphalt "tar snakes". They address different problems.

Road resurfacing improves stopping distances and rough rides if the road is overall in ok condition. If the road has large cracks in it this does nothing

Tar snakes are used to seal cracks from water because after rain the movement of vehicles over the wet subgrade under the road creates a pumping effect that ejects subgrade material out from the cracks and causes potholes in the future.

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#49

Post by frogulis » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 10:53 PM UTC

goodcanadian wrote: post #40

haunter wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Wikipedia page about a technological topic (so not a person, place etc) has a very few languages available (in this case 2) then it always makes me wonder how other countries in the World solve the same issue. This seems like a very US thing for example but maybe I’m wrong

My understanding is that concrete is generally not used for highways in Canada because it doesn't hold up well in the yearly freeze-thaw cycle that the majority of the country experiences. Asphalt is used as it is more flexible, and also easier to repair (generally just filling cracks with tar) when the inevitable frost heave damage occurs. Concrete is more durable (but it still needs to be maintained) and that is pr…

Mostly asphalt here in Melbourne. No freeze-thaw cycle, but anecdotally the few concrete roads I have driven on are pretty rough and the repairs don't appear to be very effective.

(Westall road outside the ikea and Dandenong road in Caulfield where it goes under the train line, if anyone in the know is able to comment)

Re: What are those dents in I-90 outside Seattle?

#50

Post by garaetjjte » Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 10:53 PM UTC

Jorengarenar wrote: post #33

haunter wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Wikipedia page about a technological topic (so not a person, place etc) has a very few languages available (in this case 2) then it always makes me wonder how other countries in the World solve the same issue. This seems like a very US thing for example but maybe I’m wrong

Until now, I wasn't aware USA makes highways with concrete. As far as I know, in Poland vast majority of paved roads is made with asphalt, rarely bricks.

Some highways (eg. west part of A2) in Poland are concrete too. (not to mention post-German concrete highways, but I think they are already gone)