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Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers

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Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers

#41

Post by iancmceachern »

dougSF70 wrote: post #10

Yes, but. Most real world engineers could also be software engineers too. I studied Mechanical Engineering and had to learn Fortran and Pascal as part of my undergrad. What I find strange is that some of the best software engineers are not as strong at Math as you would expect. Of course there are exceptions (and no doubt they are all here on HN!). So while real world engineers can cross the divide to become software…

Exactly, a lot of what I do is creating software, scripts, etc. to help with or partially automate the design process. Designing a physical object using modern CAD tools is akin to creating a giant interconnected script that generates geometry. Much of it can be, and needs to be automated to get it all done.

Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers

#42

Post by iancmceachern »

s5300 wrote: post #21

Going mechanical engineering in the U.S. is such an incredibly poor ROI at this point, it’s ridiculous. My observations have led me to believe MBAs presume everything can be outsourced to India or Soviet satellites. Unsure of where that’s going to lead us, but I know a lot of salty MechE’s who genuinely wanted to be MechE’s for whatever reasons they had, but just can’t pass up the salary increase to be had in… other…

I dont agree. In tech, med device, aerospace, etc. a Mech E can do very well, especially in relationship to the average american.

Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers

#43

Post by iancmceachern »

jmole wrote: post #33
s5300 wrote: post #21

Going mechanical engineering in the U.S. is such an incredibly poor ROI at this point, it’s ridiculous. My observations have led me to believe MBAs presume everything can be outsourced to India or Soviet satellites. Unsure of where that’s going to lead us, but I know a lot of salty MechE’s who genuinely wanted to be MechE’s for whatever reasons they had, but just can’t pass up the salary increase to be had in… other…

We don't have the manufacturing capability in the US to make use of a boatload of really good MechE's here. There's sort of 3 paths I've seen among ME's I know: 1) Product Design at large tech company who can make consumer electronics in the millions overseas, 2) SMB work/freelance – doing odd jobs for themselves or small businesses: making specialized manufacturing equipment for low-volume high-value US MFG, doing s…

Option 4) find a niche to specialize in, like medical devices or aerospace and develop a deep skillset in that, a track record of delivering real results. It doesn't matter what door you come in, chemist, various engineering degrees, if you get good at thr business of delivering what companies want they don't care what your degree is in.

Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers

#44

Post by pneumatic1 »

eikenberry wrote: post #34

Why compare those of us who write software with engineers? It makes more sense to compare us to say.. composers, poets or something. Writing software is an art form and has nothing in common with engineering other than some uncreative types trying to come up with a more official sounding name.

I agree with the sentiment but imo software 'engineer' isn't wrong. It is in the sense that it's obviously unrelated to motors/engines but the word comes from the Latin ingeniator; to contrive or devise.

Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers

#45

Post by iancmceachern »

eikenberry wrote: post #34

Why compare those of us who write software with engineers? It makes more sense to compare us to say.. composers, poets or something. Writing software is an art form and has nothing in common with engineering other than some uncreative types trying to come up with a more official sounding name.

MechE here. I argue that what I do, designing medical devices, is exactly the same. More an art than a science, and more similar to software engineering than any of those other things you list.

Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers

#47

Post by MilStdJunkie »

If you've seen Margin Call, you know the scene I'm thinking of right now. The "I Built a Bridge" scene.

Beginning in the mid-70s something went horribly, horribly wrong with the way capital handles risk management, resulting in "real stuff" being undervalued by orders of magnitude, since it was by nature riskier. Hence that aforementuioned scene.

Russian-style command economies failed in some part because they lacked mechanisms for borrowing money from the future. The American system is staring failure right in the face because of its inability to quantify what future value implies. I imagine future history books will look at the two systems in parallel, the latest chapter in the ongoing story of telluric states and the thalassocracies that separate them. With all the non-nuclear states huddled underneath in their shuddering quasi-sovereignty.

This is probably the most flame-worthy thing I've ever said on HN, so go nuts.

Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers

#48

Post by bee_rider »

polishdude20 wrote: post #4
dieselgate wrote: post #2

Everything was built on the shoulders of giants

I always wondered why we say "giants" here. It would be more accurate and empowering to say "everything was built on the shoulders of our ancestors" they weren't giants. They were regular people.

The correct answer is that, while it is of course true that they were just humans, we label them as giants in retrospect due to their accomplishments.

However the fun answer is: Voltron. For example our smartphones were built by Steve Jobs piloting a Voltron’d up giant. It has Tesla as one hand, Edison as the other, and their rivalry drives a lot of the dialogue. Von Neumann and Clerk Maxwell make up the torso, and the main villain for the first couple seasons is actually Maxwell’s Demon.

Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers

#49

Post by closewith »

khaledh wrote: post #29

Thanks and hats off to all people doing useful work everywhere. From store clerks to firefighters, from office administrators to CEOs of companies providing useful products/services at a large scale. We need each other. On the topic of engineering specifically, yes engineers build reliable complex systems that make the world livable. Software engineers also build the invisible bits that runs the digital infrastructur…

> From store clerks to firefighters, from office administrators to CEOs of companies providing useful products/services at a large scale.

I run a small software business, but also work part-time as an EMT and volunteer as a SAR medic.

I make approximately 12x more from my software business per hour worked (and I'm the lowest paid employee in the business) than I do working as an EMT (and obviously the volunteer isn't paid at all). I could make a lot more again in industry.

As an EMT, I work with people who are skilled, educated, hard-working, diligent, and who make enormous personal sacrifices (familially, financially, and mentally) for their patients. That includes the paramedics, nurses, doctors, and even SAR heli crews we hand over to.

And yet, to a rounding error, none of them will ever earn as much as I do as a part-time software developer.

Yes, there are other non-tangible benefits to working in healthcare - after all, that's why I do it.

There are also enormous costs, mostly in terms of time and psychological cost. And almost everyone I work with (although not all) could make more money working less hours in a better working environment.

So my hat goes off to all the labourers, but especially those I mentioned above, because they almost always have better options, but they don't leave. Almost always because they care more about their patients than their own personal bottom line.

Re: Tell HN: Thanks and hats off to all the non software engineers

#50

Post by EMM_386 »

dougSF70 wrote: post #10

Yes, but. Most real world engineers could also be software engineers too. I studied Mechanical Engineering and had to learn Fortran and Pascal as part of my undergrad. What I find strange is that some of the best software engineers are not as strong at Math as you would expect. Of course there are exceptions (and no doubt they are all here on HN!). So while real world engineers can cross the divide to become software…

> What I find strange is that some of the best software engineers are not as strong at Math as you would expect.

I actually trained to be a commercial pilot prior to becoming a software engineer and I suck at math, which people would expect is extremely important in both fields.

Granted, in college I still had to get through advanced aerodynamics courses and stuff like that, but I studied just enough to pass those. In software engineering, I use almost zero math and I've been doing this now for decades.

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