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Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

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Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#41
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a property is landlocked like this, you should have a right of way through other people land, isn't it the case?

Google "easement by necessity real estate law"

Ok it is created by court :/ no way I would have found the us legal term without you. In France it is automatically created, and it lowers value of your land.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something has always fascinated me about New World borders of different kinds being so square. Iowa is divided so neatly into 99 square counties (apart from the 99th, a rectangle with a funny story), Wyoming itself is literally a four-sided shape the size of Britain. This kind of thing is so mind-blowing to a European.

I think Europeans may not really get how big some of these places are until they experience it first hand - it can easily take 9 hours at freeway speed to drive from one corner of WA state to the other (Blaine to Walla Walla), and that's if you stick to the freeways and highest possible speed highways, keep cruise control on at 115-120 km/h wherever possible, and take an absolute bare minimum of stops for gas and res…

> I think Europeans may not really get how big some of these places are until they experience it first hand

Conversely, I think most Americans don't get how big the UK is, or how much longer it will take to get around than you think.

Look at a map of Scotland. If you start at Glasgow on the west coast about a third of the way up, and drive to Scrabster, the northern end of the A9, that will take you at least 9 hours too.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#43
post #14
post #11

I live in Scotland, but grew up in Ireland (where there is no such right). The value of this cannot be understated, IMO. It's not _just_ the right, the fact that it exists forces landowners to consider access routes. Very rarely have I found myself crossing fields full of livestock or someone's front garden, because in most places the landowners have maintained or signalled a preferred walking route. It really is won…

Interestingly, in Yorkshire, where there is the Rights of Way, which gives you the right to pass through private land on a specific path, I had the opposite experience. I can't count how many times I had to pass through ploughed fields, the arrow sign pointing roughly in the direction of the other side of the field, and in between there is... nothing. If it is a popular path then others might have created a faint foo…

There's not necessarily a lot they can easily do, there. Once a route is a RoW the farmer can't close or divert it without the consent of the council. If you've got a RoW crossing one of your fields diagonally then you're going to get a line trampled in your crops whether you like or or not!

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Europeans may not really get how big some of these places are until they experience it first hand - it can easily take 9 hours at freeway speed to drive from one corner of WA state to the other (Blaine to Walla Walla), and that's if you stick to the freeways and highest possible speed highways, keep cruise control on at 115-120 km/h wherever possible, and take an absolute bare minimum of stops for gas and res…

> I think Europeans may not really get how big some of these places are until they experience it first hand Conversely, I think most Americans don't get how big the UK is, or how much longer it will take to get around than you think. Look at a map of Scotland. If you start at Glasgow on the west coast about a third of the way up, and drive to Scrabster, the northern end of the A9, that will take you at least 9 hours…

And how dense England is - I'm from Leicester and one hours drive (give or take) I can reach Nottingham, Derby, Coventry, Birmingham, Sheffield, Northampton, Lincoln. Two and a half hours drive and it's London, Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, Cambridge, Oxford....

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#46
post #11

I live in Scotland, but grew up in Ireland (where there is no such right). The value of this cannot be understated, IMO. It's not _just_ the right, the fact that it exists forces landowners to consider access routes. Very rarely have I found myself crossing fields full of livestock or someone's front garden, because in most places the landowners have maintained or signalled a preferred walking route. It really is won…

I visited Ireland this year (+- the Wild Atlantic Way), we considered biking but I'm happy we eventually decided to hike/hitchhike/take buses cause Ireland is not designed for walking/biking. Everything's fenced, roads have crazy high speed limits for their width, there's no pavements outside cities, even forests are banned most of the time.

Hitchhiking on the other hand was great - we waited for more than 15 minutes only once over 3 weeks.

The situation with walking is crazy to see coming from Poland, where most forests are public property, there are almost no fences on fields (partly cause people mostly grow crops instead of keeping grazing animals I guess). It's a very strange to be in the countryside and not be able to walk from one place to another.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#47
post #14
post #11

I live in Scotland, but grew up in Ireland (where there is no such right). The value of this cannot be understated, IMO. It's not _just_ the right, the fact that it exists forces landowners to consider access routes. Very rarely have I found myself crossing fields full of livestock or someone's front garden, because in most places the landowners have maintained or signalled a preferred walking route. It really is won…

Interestingly, in Yorkshire, where there is the Rights of Way, which gives you the right to pass through private land on a specific path, I had the opposite experience. I can't count how many times I had to pass through ploughed fields, the arrow sign pointing roughly in the direction of the other side of the field, and in between there is... nothing. If it is a popular path then others might have created a faint foo…

The owner must not have thought it through then, because most tourists will chug on straight through their field. Having a marked path is to their own benefit if they have the (mis?)fortune of living on the way to a landmark.

I remember a similar case on Malta, where I went up a hill to get a nice view from a cave, recommended to me as part of the tourist route. The whole access to the cave lies across private property and there's about 20 signs explicitly pointing where to go and what will happen if you go anywhere else. I got to the cave, enjoyed it, got out, never once stepped outside the designated route. I imagine the owner worked out that meticulous path a while ago to minimise tourist noise.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#48
post #43
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, in Yorkshire, where there is the Rights of Way, which gives you the right to pass through private land on a specific path, I had the opposite experience. I can't count how many times I had to pass through ploughed fields, the arrow sign pointing roughly in the direction of the other side of the field, and in between there is... nothing. If it is a popular path then others might have created a faint foo…

There's not necessarily a lot they can easily do, there. Once a route is a RoW the farmer can't close or divert it without the consent of the council. If you've got a RoW crossing one of your fields diagonally then you're going to get a line trampled in your crops whether you like or or not!

A Right of Way I walk frequently in Kent in the UK the farmer has literally put a sign up either end of the path through his crops and then not planted a ~6 foot wide diagonal path through the crops so you're walking with growing wheat on either side of you and a cleared path where you can be comfortable you're not destroying his livelihood... if more did this it would make it so much easier.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#49

Tangentially related, Spain's coasts are public domain and therefore do not require freedom to roam: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_de_Costas_de_Espa%C3%B1a (Unfortunately, English Wikipedia does not have a translation)

California’s coasts as well!

With plenty of dark patterns by rich coastal homeowners to obscure access. Think GDPR/ePrivacy directive cookie consent practices, but for beach access.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#50

Tangentially related, Spain's coasts are public domain and therefore do not require freedom to roam: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_de_Costas_de_Espa%C3%B1a (Unfortunately, English Wikipedia does not have a translation)

This is interesting, because I definitely encountered beaches, that were private, but it has been before 2018, until a transition period changed, so maybe that changed? And otherwise I found spanish land (around Huelva) to be strictly divided by barbed wire fences with no clear way of knowing whether I entered private property or not, by following public (dirt) roads, when hiking.

Not so nice for wildlife as well.

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