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Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

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Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#41
post #11

Proof of reserves != proof of liabilities. Proof today != proof tomorrow.

The proof of reserves can be done in such a way that each user can verify that their balance is backed: https://www.kraken.com/proof-of-reserves

> Proof of reserves today != proof of reserves tomorrow.

You should be able to detect large outflows/inflows from/to their wallets and demand an explanation.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#42
post #36

Why doesn't Binance flex and encourage a complete withdrawal by say Jan 1? Wouldn't that kind of power move boost its reputation above all competitors?

Chances are they'll be dead if enough people act on that. So they're doing the opposite: reassuring people that everything is fine. If there is one common element that precedes every bank run and run on crypto exchanges and such then it is the 'everything is fine' phase just prior to the implosion.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#43

FTX was also audited by a top firm, Armanino!Changed nothing... In the article says: Following the collapse of FTX, Paul MacIntosh, EY’s US financial services crypto co-leader, said on LinkedIn that proof of reserves reports do not assess companies’ internal controls, “which ultimately was the downfall of FTX”.

Exactly. And people act like this is a problem with cryptcurrency, but it's really a problem with people in corporations behaving badly.

> And people act like this is a problem with cryptcurrency, but it's really a problem with people in corporations behaving badly.

Cryptocurrency is designed for, and has a major selling point, that it makes it easier for people to get away with actions which are socially considered bad and evade controls designed to detect, prevent, and reverse such actions.

To the extent that design works, it doesn't just protect the benign little-guy against malign authorities.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#44
post #10

What a misleading title > However, the accounting firm said on Friday that it had “paused its activity relating to the provision of proof of reserves reports for entities in the cryptocurrency sector due to concerns regarding the way these reports are understood by the public”. According to communications seen by the Financial Times, the level of media focus on the matter was also a factor in Mazars’ decision ... Maz…

Except there was no audit, only an attestation. Outflows are as good as they were for FTX - if there is no 100% coverage of customer deposits.

Chartered accounts are liable for their work. Both Mazars and BDO have already been warned by the UK regulators their oversight is insufficient in July of this year. If they end up being associated with Binance and Binance goes under it could well take Mazars with it, there is good precedent for that, see Enron and Arthur Andersen.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#45

FTX was also audited by a top firm, Armanino!Changed nothing... In the article says: Following the collapse of FTX, Paul MacIntosh, EY’s US financial services crypto co-leader, said on LinkedIn that proof of reserves reports do not assess companies’ internal controls, “which ultimately was the downfall of FTX”.

Exactly. And people act like this is a problem with cryptcurrency, but it's really a problem with people in corporations behaving badly.

Cryptocurrency is a useful proxy for people behaving badly. Maybe because it’s unregulated, maybe because it was such an easy target for grifters of all sorts.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#47

FTX was also audited by a top firm, Armanino!Changed nothing... In the article says: Following the collapse of FTX, Paul MacIntosh, EY’s US financial services crypto co-leader, said on LinkedIn that proof of reserves reports do not assess companies’ internal controls, “which ultimately was the downfall of FTX”.

Exactly. And people act like this is a problem with cryptcurrency, but it's really a problem with people in corporations behaving badly.

crypto has so many of its own problems i can see why people make this mistake

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#48
post #11

Proof of reserves != proof of liabilities. Proof today != proof tomorrow.

The proof of reserves can be done in such a way that each user can verify that their balance is backed: https://www.kraken.com/proof-of-reserves > Proof of reserves today != proof of reserves tomorrow. You should be able to detect large outflows/inflows from/to their wallets and demand an explanation.

Coffeezilla demanded explanations from Tether. None were offerred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-whuXHSL1Pg

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#49
post #36

Why doesn't Binance flex and encourage a complete withdrawal by say Jan 1? Wouldn't that kind of power move boost its reputation above all competitors?

Chances are they'll be dead if enough people act on that. So they're doing the opposite: reassuring people that everything is fine. If there is one common element that precedes every bank run and run on crypto exchanges and such then it is the 'everything is fine' phase just prior to the implosion.

One clarification:

1. For a bank run on an actual bank, it is known that a bank doesn't keep all your assets on hand - they are loaned out, which is (largely) what allows you to earn interest. So it is known that if everyone tries to withdraw at the same time that there won't be enough money.

2. For an exchange/brokerage, your money/assets are explicitly NOT supposed to be lent out without your permission. So, in theory, if everyone asked for their assets all at once, the assets should be there.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a Big Four of auditing, and Armanino is certainly not one of them. I've never heard of them.

Mazars isn't either so that feels a bit irrelevant.

Mazars is in the top 10 though, depending on which country you look at.
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