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Z-Wave Alliance Announces Z-Wave Source Code Project Now Open and Available

z-wavealliance.org

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Re: Z-Wave Alliance Announces Z-Wave Source Code Project Now Open and Available

#41

Post by cptskippy »

hedora wrote: post #4
pzo wrote: post #2

The title is confusing and sounds like just PR. I thought they mean "Z-Wave project is Open Source now" but looks like source code is still in private github repository and you need to be a "member" to get access. What "Source Code Project" supposed to even mean? Any source code is part of some project(s).

The article links to this: > The goal of the source code project is to provide a rich development environment containing relevant source code and sample applications under BSD 3 License. The Z-Wave source code project will enable members to contribute code to the project under the supervision of the new OS Work Group (OSWG). Which doesn't clarify at all. Is OS "open source" or "operating system", or something? Is the…

Z-Wave differentiates itself from other IoT networks in that it's a closed proprietary network that you access by purchasing their proprietary hardware. This offers network stability and complete interoperability between devices because it's all controlled by a single vendor. Z-Wave device manufacturers interface with the proprietary hardware to provide state and receive command.

Many vendors make USB dongles with Z-Wave Controller interfaces hanging off of them that you can interface using a terminal. These dongles allow anyone to make their own Gateway for controlling other Z-Wave devices.

Because the interface is completely controlled and locked down, it means vendors can't embrace/extend Z-Wave or lock their devices down to their own proprietary controller.

There are some downsides to this setup, like distributing updated firmware for devices is challenging. No one wants to hand their blobs over to opensource projects to allow them to push updates.

Re: Z-Wave Alliance Announces Z-Wave Source Code Project Now Open and Available

#42

Post by kps »

dwaite wrote: post #12
worldmerge wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Matter and Thread use wifi or are they a different radio freq?

Thread is a mesh protocol on 6LoWPAN, which in turn is based on the same underlying 802.11.4 as Zigbee in the 2.4 Ghz spectrum. Its claims to fame is having reasonable response times/batteru life and being based on IPv6. Being based on IP allows devices to talk to one another, and for bridging those devices to the broader network and potentially to the internet with clear layer separation. Matter is a IP-based IoT di…

> Devices using other wireless tech can also theoretically work with Matter with a gateway

Signify (née Philips Lighting) has got Matter certification for their Hue hub.

Re: Z-Wave Alliance Announces Z-Wave Source Code Project Now Open and Available

#43

Post by Lendal »

synergy20 wrote: post #7
hedora wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article links to this: > The goal of the source code project is to provide a rich development environment containing relevant source code and sample applications under BSD 3 License. The Z-Wave source code project will enable members to contribute code to the project under the supervision of the new OS Work Group (OSWG). Which doesn't clarify at all. Is OS "open source" or "operating system", or something? Is the…

z-wave is kind of competing with zigbee for low power mid-range wireless standard for smart home or smart building since like 20 years ago? then we have low power bluetooth and low-power wifi joined the party. z-wave was proprietary which did not help its deployments, but still I recall it was the most deployed low power wireless devices for IoT. I worked on zigbee and never liked it. I wish z-wave was more open back…

My house is standardized on Z-wave because I can afford a bit extra $ for each device in exchange for reliability. I can also add Zigbee if I need to, since my hub can do both. I just haven't needed to yet. Everything is available in both Zigbee and Z-wave versions, so I choose to pay the extra for added reliability.

I haven't had much luck with Bluetooth and Wifi IoT devices. They tend to last a couple of years and then die. They also are more hassle to set up, and use more power. I don't need more hassle in my life. Z-wave and Zigbee are both more reliable, with Z-wave taking the slight edge over Zigbee.

What's happening now is Thread (Matter) is coming. Thread is basically Zigbee Mark II. Thread is on par with Z-wave, but it supposed will retain its edge in cost benefit. I may start buying Thread stuff as it becomes available, but the problem is my mesh is solidly Z-wave. It doesn't seem worthwhile to start replacing stuff that works perfectly fine.

Re: Z-Wave Alliance Announces Z-Wave Source Code Project Now Open and Available

#44

Post by xattt »

Lendal wrote: post #39
Izkata wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some years ago when I was getting into this it looked to me like Z-Wave was winning. Did something happen?

The new Thread protocol (part of Matter) is basically Zigbee on steroids which gets it up to parity with Z-wave. The reason to choose Z-wave over Thread is that Z-wave works now and has many devices available to buy, while Thread works in theory and the devices are very few in number. Thread devices are due out in force next year. So this actually is perfect timing for Z-wave to make this move now, right as the first…

There were a bunch of missed opportunities for Zigbee to become enshrined in the home.

For example, the first and second-gen Nest thermostats had a Zigbee radio built-in. At acquisition by Google, Nest heavily leaned into the wifi/cloud side for control and the Zigbee radio was squandered, other than for some esoteric “Works with Nest” protocol that maybe 2 other third-party devices supported.

Edit: I stand corrected by the comment below.

Re: Z-Wave Alliance Announces Z-Wave Source Code Project Now Open and Available

#45

Post by bluSCALE4 »

solarkraft wrote: post #23

Sounds like a last resort for popularity. The market for IoT RF standards is consolidating and Z-Wave doesn't seem to be among the winners.

The problem with Z-Wave is the price and consistency. I bought an extender so it worked in the garage but it never worked. I've spent hours/days trying to get them to work by closely following instructions and buying dongles to better manage nodes. Still, I never got my lock and switch to work. I'll likely just end up replacing them with wifi devices at a fraction of the cost.

Re: Z-Wave Alliance Announces Z-Wave Source Code Project Now Open and Available

#46

Post by bluSCALE4 »

hedora wrote: post #4
pzo wrote: post #2

The title is confusing and sounds like just PR. I thought they mean "Z-Wave project is Open Source now" but looks like source code is still in private github repository and you need to be a "member" to get access. What "Source Code Project" supposed to even mean? Any source code is part of some project(s).

The article links to this: > The goal of the source code project is to provide a rich development environment containing relevant source code and sample applications under BSD 3 License. The Z-Wave source code project will enable members to contribute code to the project under the supervision of the new OS Work Group (OSWG). Which doesn't clarify at all. Is OS "open source" or "operating system", or something? Is the…

Z-Wave stands out because many of this devices can act as repeaters and extend your range. They also offer security which others do not. They also work really well but can get really expensive.

You're looking at 2-5x the cost of a Zigbee device. Zigbee is not without it's problems but I've been able to solve mine with $14 repeaters while my Z-Wave problems have complicated solutions and still might be solvable.

Re: Z-Wave Alliance Announces Z-Wave Source Code Project Now Open and Available

#47

Post by vardump »

ars wrote: post #30
Izkata wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some years ago when I was getting into this it looked to me like Z-Wave was winning. Did something happen?

Z-Wave is definitely the better protocol (vs Zigbee), but Matter is partially based on Zigbee so everyone expects Z-Wave to lose. I don't agree, I think Z-wave will work with Matter using bridging.

Any reasoning why? My home automation is 95%+ Zigbee, and I don't see any issues. Mesh networking works very nicely, reaching far corners of the house.

Re: Z-Wave Alliance Announces Z-Wave Source Code Project Now Open and Available

#48

Post by bioemerl »

horsawlarway wrote: post #31
synergy20 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

z-wave is kind of competing with zigbee for low power mid-range wireless standard for smart home or smart building since like 20 years ago? then we have low power bluetooth and low-power wifi joined the party. z-wave was proprietary which did not help its deployments, but still I recall it was the most deployed low power wireless devices for IoT. I worked on zigbee and never liked it. I wish z-wave was more open back…

Personally - I got kinda the other feel. Seems like Z-Wave is slowly dying in favor of zigbee devices. I can't really even find z-wave bulbs right now. And basically any device I might want (curtains, alarms, sensors, lights, motors, thermostats, etc) comes in a zigbee form. I agree that Z-Wave did the better standards enforcement, but Zigbee went with the age old route to success: manage to be cheaper. Throw in that…

In my experience both are dying in favor of iot/wifi stuff.

Zwave is still strong in the commercial space

ZigBee is strong in the consumer space, especially light bulbs that commercial systems do not want to use.

I'm thinking it'll be longer before zwave dies for real vs zigbee, but it will only live on the back of the big slow commercial entities that back it.

Re: Z-Wave Alliance Announces Z-Wave Source Code Project Now Open and Available

#49

Post by vardump »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #38
slimginz wrote: post #5

Now that Matter and Thread are finally starting to roll out, is there really any good reason for new products to still use Z-Wave? Or am I just crazy to see this as Z-Wave trying to continue a format war (first started with Zigbee) that they're almost certainly going to lose?

Z-Wave is a better technology. I want home automation hardware to be simple, reliable, and not Internet connected.

I'm using no cloud Zigbee home automation. Seems to be very reliable and has really great range thanks to the mesh networking. It's also really simple.

Zigbee allows using multiple vendors with ease, not tied to just one manufacturer.

Again, no internet connection required.

Re: Z-Wave Alliance Announces Z-Wave Source Code Project Now Open and Available

#50

Post by [deleted] »

zamalek wrote: post #15
synergy20 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

z-wave is kind of competing with zigbee for low power mid-range wireless standard for smart home or smart building since like 20 years ago? then we have low power bluetooth and low-power wifi joined the party. z-wave was proprietary which did not help its deployments, but still I recall it was the most deployed low power wireless devices for IoT. I worked on zigbee and never liked it. I wish z-wave was more open back…

> general feeling is that zigbee did not take off Z-Wave's primary advantage is, ironically, the openness of the ecosystem. Due to the lack of a stringent certification process Zigbee vendors can (and routinely do) lock devices to their proprietary hub. I'm guessing that is one main motivator for its failure. Though, keep in mind that Hue (one of the most successful IoT vendors) is all open Zigbee. Zigbee's main adva…

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